• Thanks: 3

Topic: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Even with the highest quality setting, the highest artifacts masking setting, and animation optimization; SVP 4 has very disappointing artifacting due to the lack of quality customization controls.

Artifacting includes extreme halo and blur effects during fast scenes, window blind artifacts, and blurry edges.

Why there is no option to custom edit every setting like in 3.1.7? I spent many hours customizing SVP so I can minimize artifacts and still have satisfactory motion fluency, something I am unable to do in SVP 4.0, where I am limited to a scrolling bar which does not specify what exactly is changed when moving it from "Performance" to "Quality".

Will we get detailed settings for expert customization?

2 Reply by dlr5668 (edited by dlr5668 16-11-2015 15:12:16)

  • Thanks: 230
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

The only way is buy svp pro. Btw try x2,x3 framerate (Most monitors can work on 71.928 Hz). It will reduce artifacts greatly.

  • Thanks: 3

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

I had the normal version installed while I do own Pro, and it took me awhile to figure out where to find expert settings but I did, thank you for the obvious that I missed.

Shouldn't the framerate match Hz? I have been using 59Hz @ 59 FPS frame conversion (equivalent of 60 on SVP), if I use for example 120 FPS on SVP, which results to 119.880, should I stick with 59Hz or go for 60Hz?'

Another question is why does "1.5m" gives me less halo effects around small objects in comparison to "2m"? I played around with the "Search" settings and global refinement, but "1.5m" is significantly better.

  • Thanks: 37
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

The FPS usually floor-ed, e.g 59.94 usually only 59, 23.97 only 23, etc, so stick with 60Hz refresh rate.

If by chance you want to manually override or manually change those available value, you'll have to change those values in override.js.
This will help you to know what those values mean https://www.svp-team.com/w/index.php?ti … ow_options

For the mode, this will explain those (scroll to the bottom of page) https://www.svp-team.com/wiki/SVP:Technical_insights

  • Thanks: 3

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Thank you for the information, so for FPS > Hz I should stick with 60Hz, and go for 59Hz in case FPS = Hz. Is going for FPS over Hz really beneficial?

Additionally, I have changed all settings to match SVP 1.3.7, and although the image improved, there is still some artifacting and haloing, especially in fast motion scenes, that SVP 1.3.7 did not have. I do not understand why this is happening.

  • Thanks: 37
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

CMIIW, the ideal is FPS should be Hz-FPS = delta, where delta should be small as possible (less than one? )
The situation where FPS > Hz will lead to jerky, maybe, someone who knowledgeable will correct this smile

I think the different effects that you perceive are down to the "default" values that given by the SVP Manager to feed to the SVPFlow. I don't know the values that generated by generate.js in SVP 4 (I don't even know whether SVP 4 still uses generate.js).

I think your best bet is directly changing the values in override.js and makes same values with SVP 3.1.7.

  • Thanks: 3

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Fair enough, thank you for this. As for the HZ vs. FPS I was under the same impression, until dlr5668 suggested I up the FPS. Unless I did not understand him properly?

In any case, I will look into this. Thanks again.

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Fabulist wrote:

until dlr5668 suggested I up the FPS. Unless I did not understand him properly?

He meant to try making a custom resolution to run your display at 48Hz or 72Hz, and then manually interpolating to 2x or 3x.

  • Thanks: 230
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:
Fabulist wrote:

until dlr5668 suggested I up the FPS. Unless I did not understand him properly?

He meant to try making a custom resolution to run your display at 48Hz or 72Hz, and then manually interpolating to 2x or 3x.

yes. with this tool http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Threa … tility-CRU

10 Reply by Fabulist (edited by Fabulist 16-11-2015 21:39:39)

  • Thanks: 3

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Now I understand, thank you for this information. Currently, I am simply trying to tone down the haloing, but I cannot find SVP 3.1.7 to do the comparison in "generate.js". Meanwhile, adding more "Artifacts masking" barely resolves it and makes the video very non-fluid.

This is unacceptable quality wise, "2m" on "Complicated" plus playing around with all other settings makes no difference, I get haloing to a ridiculous level in some movies / scenes.

EDIT: I did find SVP 3.1.7 and I compared the "generate.js" files, I do not understand a thing. So am I supposed to copy paste the old one in order to revert to how SVP 3.1.7 worked in terms of haloing? Does that mean I also cripple SVP 4's updated functionality / performance?

11 Reply by mashingan (edited by mashingan 16-11-2015 23:19:14)

  • Thanks: 37

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Yes, makes the interpolating as multiple of exact integer is the definite way to reduce artifacts.

Fabulist wrote:

EDIT: I did find SVP 3.1.7 and I compared the "generate.js" files, I do not understand a thing. So am I supposed to copy paste the old one in order to revert to how SVP 3.1.7 worked in terms of haloing? Does that mean I also cripple SVP 4's updated functionality / performance?

Don't change any values or expression in "generate.js". You only need to compare the value it generates and comparing it with the values from 3.1.7.
You should look for "override.js" instead of "generate.js". The necessary values are defined in "override.js".
Don't forget to remove the commenting sign in front of each expression (the "//")

Refer to this page, https://www.svp-team.com/wiki/SVP:Techn … AVS-script

  • Thanks: 3

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Wel the override.js files of both SVP 4.0 and SVP 3.1.7 seem identical after the line "//levels.pel                = 2;" - only "generate.js" looks different.

  • Thanks: 37

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

To tweak the "generate.js", you should have any experience with JScript and/or Javascript. The "override.js" is supplied to make it easier to tweak the values that will be fed to SVPFlow.

In the end, you still need to refer this page https://www.svp-team.com/w/index.php?ti … ow_options to tweak it. So I'm sorry I can't advise furthermore.
When you're tweaking the "override.js", you're on your way wink

  • Thanks: 3

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

So even though my "override.js" files look identical, I have to figure out how I can further reduce artifacts by guessing what I need to tweak in the "override.js" file. That means I am pretty much stuck with SVP's artifacts until I can spend hours and hours of tweaking it.

I will roll back to SVP 3.1.7 until a developer informs us regarding this matter - I can generate multiple examples of the haloing if necessary.

  • Thanks: 37

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

For reference, this is part of my last used script which generated from SVP 3.1.7

global crop_params=""
global resize_string=""
global super_params="{scale:{up:0},gpu:1,rc:true}"
global analyse_params="{block:{w:32,h:32},main:{search:{coarse:{distance:-10}}}}"
global smoothfps_params="{rate:{num:5,den:2},algo:13,mask:{area:50},scene:{}}"

It equivalently by changing value in "override.js" to

levels.gpu = 1;
levels.scale.up = 0;

analyse.block.w = 32;
analyse.block.h = 32;
analyse.main.search.coarse.distance = -10;

smooth.rate = 5;
smooth.den = 2;
smooth.algo = 13;
smooth.mask.area = 50;

So in short, you should look for your "last used script" which generated by SVP 3.1.7, and use that for reference to change the value of "override.js" in SVP 4

  • Thanks: 3

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Thank you for everything mashingan. However, if I switch SVP 4.0's values to SVP 3.1.7's, would it mean that SVP 4.0's functionality is effectively crippled?

  • Thanks: 37

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Yeah, it is and it's not too smile

While overriding the value could cripple its functionality, to be able to override the value is a feature too big_smile

But yeah, since you decided to roll-back to 3.1.7, it's okay too.
In the end, what's really matter is to be able watch the video comfortably big_smile

  • Thanks: 3
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Thank you again mashingan.

So is this something acknowledged / planned to get fixed? Or is it me who is reporting it for the first time?

I already tested it on multiple systems, with exceptional configurations, GPU acceleration on / off, and SVP 4.0 has extreme haloing, it cannot even touch SVP 3.1.7's quality with exactly the same settings. Specifically:

http://i.imgur.com/ImSwclG.png

http://i.imgur.com/Z2CKwkY.png

These settings bring SVP 4's video quality close (about 75%) to SVP 3.1.7's video quality. Mind the difference in the settings "Motion Vector's Grid" and "Artifacts masking". And although it is close, haloing is still very unacceptable on SVP 4 in certain scenes, where the haloing effect is so extreme, that changing settings barely makes a difference. The effect persists 10/10 times on fast motion scenes.

I did try a vast number of changes in SVP 4's settings, I actually tried almost all relevant combinations and SVP 4.0 cannot retain an acceptable video, in terms of haloing, without resulting to much less smooth video. In reality, going for the lowest smoothing options; 2m , 32 px. Large 0, grid step disabled, still produces minor haloing.

19 Reply by dlr5668 (edited by dlr5668 21-11-2015 23:27:28)

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Fabulist wrote:

I already tested it on multiple systems.

Did u try different ratios ?
24->48, 24->72 (add new modes to monitor).

If u have some spare money Korean 1440p PLS/IPS panels are great addition to any system. 90% of them will overclock to 120 Hz.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 4JH1NB1871

  • Thanks: 3

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

The results are the same on all screens, 60Hz, or 144Hz, TVs or PC monitors. Increasing the framerate interpolation above Hz makes no difference, lowering them below Hz defeats the purpose.

So nothing from developers regarding this?

  • MAG79
  • SVP developer
  • Offline

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Fabulist
Let's take certain video for example.
If you give me a link I will find optimal settings. And it is easy to explain them on specific example.

  • Thanks: 3
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

I cannot simply give you a link; but you try any of the following movies I tested lately and you can see for yourself that there is much more haloing with SVP 4 than with SVP 3.1.7 in general, and then try my settings as well. I have created a list, the specific movies I have watched and tested multiple times.

Movies extensively tested (Blu Ray):

1.    Gravity
2.    Interstellar
3.    Inception
4.    Prometheus
5.    Ant-Man
6.    Tron Legacy
7.    Man of Steel
8.    John Wick
9.    The Matrix
10.    The Matrix Reloaded
11.    The Matrix Revolutions
12.    Batman Begins
13.    Dark Knight
14.    Dark Knight Rises
15.    Avengers Age of Ultron
16.    The Avengers
17.    Star Wars 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
18.    LoTR 1, 2, 3
19.    Star Trek
20.    Star Trek Into Darkness

The most problematic ones are The Matrix fighting scenes (e.g. first training scene), Ant-Man in general (e.g. in the begging, when we first see the laboratory and the product is advertised, Darren Cross's head haloes a lot as he walks across the room), and Tron Legacy in general (mostly on fast scenes, like the car arriving in the arena). I have extensively tested with multiple settings combinations in the above movies, so you can use SVP 4's highest quality setting in conjunction with film optimization and no artifact masking to enhance the effect. When you target a highly artifacting scene, start lowering / adjusting the settings and compare with SVP 3. Afterwards, duplicate my SVP 3 settings to SVP 4 and check the difference - SVP 4 will produce much more artifacts. Finally, switch SVP 4's settings as seen in the image above, so you will get video quality closer to what my SVP 3's settings produce, but will still have significantly more artifacting.

You will not be able to get the same amount of smoothness and artifact elimination with SVP 4 as you can with SVP 3 by just configuring the panel, and when you manage to adjust the settings for each individual movies and eliminate all artifacts, you will not be able to eliminate haloing completely. In contrast, my settings in SVP 3 work for all of these movies and have no artifacts & haloing, or if they do it is extremely minor and nothing compared to SVP 4.

23 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 23-11-2015 18:46:59)

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

You could at the very least take screenshots of SVP4 vs SVP3 in the exact same interpolated frame...

(In MPC-HC, use Ctrl+right arrow to step to the next frame; this can be done while paused)

24 Reply by dlr5668 (edited by dlr5668 23-11-2015 22:35:58)

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

Just downloaded Ant man. Will post my feedback later
http://i.imgur.com/51d4wYl.jpg

21:32:26.655 [i]: OS: Windows 10 [10.0.10240]
21:32:26.657 [i]: CPU: AMD FX-6300 Six-Core [base frequency 4400 MHz, 6 threads]
21:32:26.944 [i]: Video 1: device name 'AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series' (Advanced Micro Devices, Inc., ver.1800.11) [gpuID=11]: OK
21:32:26.944 [i]: Memory:  8088  MB total,  4338 MB free
21:32:37.892 [i]: Playback [8062e]: Avisynth (32-bit) version 2.6.0.5, Avisynth 2.6, C:\Program Files (x86)\Kodi\avisynth.dll
21:32:44.405 [i]: Screens: screen 0 - 1920x1080 @71.926 Hz [measured], 96 PPI
rt.generic.fi_auto: true
rt.generic.fi_mode: 4
rt.generic.fi_precision: 2
rt.generic.fi_scene_changes: 1
rt.generic.fi_shader: 13
rt.generic.fi_target: 1.0001
rt.generic.mv_coarsewidth: 1050
rt.generic.mv_grid: 12
rt.generic.mv_radius: 2
rt.generic.mv_refine: 0
rt.generic.mv_wide: 1
rt.generic.title: Automatic

EDIT: everything was great. There were some artifacts but nothing too serious (moving objects behind fence and similar)

  • Thanks: 1
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP 4 artifacting is unacceptable

I haven't posted about this myself but I can confirm what Fabulist says. I have been unable to get 4 to look as good as 3.17. I actually use very similar setting as he posted. I have just settled on continuing to use 3.17 for now. I donated during the campaign and would like to use 4 but the donation was worth the use I've gotten out of 3.x.x already. It would be nice to get 4 to look at least as good though and use it. I may try and take some screenshots and post them here in the next few days.