1 (edited by WolfyAmbassador 07-10-2014 16:00:57)

Topic: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

I have an LG TV model 32LB5800. It's advertised as a "60hz" TV with "MCI 120" on the box and specifications. Usually the MCI numbers do not determine the actual refresh rates of the panels. I know that MCI can go beyond 480hz which is BS, because there is no refresh rate past 240hz. I know that those fake numbers are just estimated picture enhancements which are suppose to represent how xxhz panel is suppose to be as good as xxxhz panel with picture processing, etc...

In the menu, I have TruMotion (LG's version of motion interpolation, or combined backlight scanning if panel is 240hz or "beyond" on other models). There's 3 different settings, Smooth, Clear, and User(Custom) which has "De-judder" only that can be manually adjusted from 0-10, with 10 being the most aggressive and having intense blocky artifacts with moving objects and seems to lose the overall image quality, where's the Clear and Smooth presets had a different effect not only on interpolation, but on image quality as well. On other LG TV models, there was a separate "De-blur" setting alongside "De-Judder" in the User/Custom setting which is probably why I can't max out the quality since I only have "De-judder" as an option and missing the "De-blur" adjustment. This TV also has "Real Cinema" which advertises as "2:2 pulldown" for 24p content on my model TV, which I think means the TV is downclocked to 48hz mode to display the same frame twice which is what "2:2" represents?

I am wondering since this is a 60hz panel technically, is the interpolation process similar to that of SVP's? If you look at SVP, it has to insert a number of interpolated frames so that 24fps content could reach 60fps on a standard 60hz monitor, but television manufacturers generally state that 24 and 60 can not go in to each other equally, so they added 120hz+ panels for motion interpolation instead of using 60hz panels which is suppose to be impossible for interpolation. If I am not mistaken, SVP has to remove original frames and replaces them with interpolated ones or inserts them at odd times in order to make 24fps content display at 60fps to achieve the soap opera effect? If my TV is indeed 60hz then the process of having lower framerate convert to 60fps would be the same or similar to that of SVP, which is why I notice that when setting it manually to the highest level I lose image quality, because it's removing original frames from the source and replacing it with more interpolated frames to reach maximum smoothness like the SVP "uniform" setting? It has to replace the frames since it can't add any additional interpolated ones past the 60hz refresh rate, correct? It's basically making room for the new frames. The Smooth and Clear presets on my TV probably have a different number of frames they insert or at different times etc... which results in altered image quality, which I guess is kinda obvious. You don't see many 60hz TVs on the market with ME/MC as an option since most 120hz+ TVs were created for the purpose of motion interpolation, something that 60hz sets supposedly couldn't do. 120hz+ TVs are obviously better because they don't have to remove original frames from the source when interpolating.


Here's the review for the TV: http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/lg/lb5800  In the review, he states that TruMotion didn't kick in at 60fps footage, which is another indicator of it being a 60hz TV. I've noticed myself on what I thought was 60fps footage that you don't really see artifacts around people showing that it doesn't kick in past 60fps. And if you look at traffic scenes in 24p movies, it looks almost or just like a 60fps news broadcast showing traffic conditions.

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

there's a test video somewhere around (couldn't find it right now  hmm)

it looks like a white-on-black clock where the hand moves to the next hour mark in each frame

this video can clearly show what type of interpolation used and how much original frames was kept

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

Chainik wrote:

there's a test video somewhere around (couldn't find it right now  hmm)

it looks like a white-on-black clock where the hand moves to the next hour mark in each frame

this video can clearly show what type of interpolation used and how much original frames was kept

If you can find it, post it here. I'm curious on how my TV works.

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

WolfyAmbassador
Try video 'watch-1920x1280-24p' from this article: http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/video-me … -1.shtml#4
You need to use the same video mode (24p) when output this video to TV. And you need photocamera with long delay to record several frames in one shot.

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

MAG79
from this article
let them all learn Russian at last big_smile

WolfyAmbassador
this's what you want:
http://www.svp-team.com/forum/misc.php?item=3260&download=0

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6 (edited by WolfyAmbassador 08-10-2014 19:34:44)

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

How do I go about doing this now? Do I compare 60p and 24p and see if they both look the same with trumotion enabled?

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

you need to take a picture of the screen with a camera with shutter speed set to 1 sec
it may look like this
http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/video-methodology/smartphone.jpg

in fact I didn't try this, it may be either quite interesting or not  big_smile

---
so you should take "24p" version, play it on TV and take a picture
the picture will show all intermediate frames and all repeated frames (marks with doubled brightness)

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

I took 3 pictures with my phone camera, not exactly sure if my camera is 1 second on the shutter, but I know that if I put it in manual focus (which I did), the shutter speed is so fast like a split second. Don't really have another camera to use at the moment, but here's what I got:



https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing

9 (edited by WolfyAmbassador 09-10-2014 01:06:36)

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

Is this better? I downloaded an app on my phone that allows me to adjust speed and everything. I put it on speed priority mode, and put it on 1.0" or 1", which I assume is 1 second, and then I took a few pics to test it out, and I decided to use this one for sharing.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing





UPDATE....Here's another 2 I took with exposure value set to -3.0 because it gets too bright.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

WolfyAmbassador
Is this better?

lol this's really not the right camera for the task

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

Chainik wrote:

WolfyAmbassador
Is this better?

lol this's really not the right camera for the task

Any other method?  hmm

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

{
set lowest ISO value possible
fix the camera on the table
ensure it's focused on the screen
use delayed shutter release
}
or
{ continue discussion on AVSForum }

choose one  big_smile

13 (edited by WolfyAmbassador 10-10-2014 21:39:46)

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

Chainik wrote:

{
set lowest ISO value possible
fix the camera on the table
ensure it's focused on the screen
use delayed shutter release
}
or
{ continue discussion on AVSForum }

choose one  big_smile

I put the ISO sensitivity to the lowest value and I set my phone down:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

and now you can start to try to find out how your TV works wink

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

Chainik wrote:

and now you can start to try to find out how your TV works wink

I came up with 72hz or fps, because of the way I counted the shades in the bar above the wheel, but I had the idea that it might have been 72hz anyway, because the refresh rate has to be equal with 24fps somehow when watching movies. Although 48hz could work, the framerate looks higher than that with trumotion on I also thought maybe 96hz prior to all this testing. I am still unsure.



Also, I've decided to do more tests and have the shutter time set to 2 seconds so it gives the camera long enough time to capture everything I needed to capture.


The test results look slightly different in each capture but not too far off from each other.



https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing

Re: LG 60hz TV with TruMotion similar to SVP?

So the bright shades are the ones that show interpolated frames?