• noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Topic: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

Hello from Germany!

I am home cinema (CRT projector) nerd and became more and more addicted to motion interpolation, as screen size increased while seating distance decreased.  I ended up at my max. screen of 2.4 ratio with a width of 3,7 Meter and a viewing distance of 2,5 meter.  I learned the hard way, that with a bigger viewing angle, a need for more frames arises (as an fast objects start to jump over the screen instead of moving smooooothly). I guess many of you know this documentary about frame rates on big screens, but probably someone does not:

Part one of many.....  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1aMD6dI … ature=plcp


Rooted at the HTPC side,  I now use a long chain of video processors like a denoiser (Algolith), deinterlacer (DVDO VP50), scaler (Lumagen HDP) and a split screen processor that also does pip (dido aurora). Somewhere in  the beginning of this chain  I also use a Cinemateq Motion Optimizer, as the most important part of the chain. The Cinematic device takes YUV and SDI standard definition an creates smooth 50 or 60 frames of it (depending on the input). I became so addicted to motion interpolation, that I even skipped  HD until now - as the CInemateq only accepts SD! There are close to no processors out there that do HD motion interpolation - but if someone knows other than certain TVones, please let me know: 7383@macpunk.com 

But now with SVP, I might go back to HTPC completely!

I would like to use input cards like the sweetspot (http://www.pluggedin.tv/sweetspot/) or with the same chip the PDI deluxe (http://www.pixelmagicsystems.com/produc … deluxe.htm). Both cards run normally with dscaler, that is great software with good deinterlacing and extras like a tv station "logo killer" and 240p and 288p support for classic video games! Plus you can use a load of TV tuner card wit dscaler and watch via the tuner or the video and SVideo inputs of these card. You can run these cards in dscaler in normal mode, or ffdshow - so I hope there might be a way to use SVP there. If not, it would be nice to be able to use these component and RGB capture cards in the pot player or an other player (ideas?). So far, I did get those cards running in Pot, with SVP reporting to work - bit it did not increase the frames. And I had some other problems, before SVP.

My next step would be to have an HDMI input card like the blackmagic intensity pro (also HD component), and increase frame rate of HD gaming consoles and (!!!!!!) PC. SO I would use one PC for gaming, and one for doubling an tripling the frame rate. Starting with 24p/25p/30p/50/60 - depending on the perforamance of the first system,  and then double or triple in the scecond pc. Does anyone know if the blackmagic intensity can be use in Potplayer or somewhere else?
You could also input HDCP protected stuff into the PC from Sat receivers and external bluray/HDDVD players if HDCP strippers are used.

Thanks for SVP


noos

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

sd video on 3.7 m screen? OMG  big_smile

i don't really get the question

I did get those cards running in Pot, with SVP reporting to work - bit it did not increase the frames.

if you'll show both filters list used in PotPlayer and SVP settings then someone would say something useful

3 Reply by noos (edited by noos 07-11-2012 17:11:26)

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

Hello,

well on a CRT with no visual Pixels, plus one of the worlds best denoising, deinterlacing, scaling and edge enhancement - SD can look good. And even better after the Cinemateq Motion Optimizer. Luckily, if you know what to look for, this older stuff goes cheap on ebay :-)

My hope was that someone tried one of the configurations described by me, and could offer advice. Probably someone might in the future...

But I have to excuse myself, as I stood a way for a while from HTPC and lost sight on the most important: Filters. Next time when I am on HTPC, I will make screenshots from the Potplayer settings/filters.

Thanks so far

noos

  • Thanks: 1620
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

noos
My hope was that someone tried one of the configurations described by me

Yeah, I've got an Avermedia TV capture card. Somewhere...  big_smile and I'm pretty sure it won't work under Windows 8 smile

BTW I believe most of DScaler original filters are already in ffdshow.
And madVR renderer could beat anything when it comes to video upscaling.

5 Reply by noos (edited by noos 07-11-2012 19:04:12)

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

Chainik,

I am happy to hear  about these specifications of htpc software. And, I am really impressed by MPC and potplayer running with SVP (video files). I have installed an uninstalled several times, and I am sure had a lot combos tested (madvr, lav....). There are very good descripions here and on the web.

Yes, these cards (sweetspot and PDI) are old, but work fine in Dscaler under Win7. Nice for SD, 240p and VHS...
But my bigger hope for use with SVP is the Blackmagic Intesity - then I could use SVP for external HD souces.

Back to sweetspot and PDI: I have made screen shots, and hope I have everything included. Please let me know if sth is missing. As I said, SVP repots to be working with the green message onscreen, but I was not fast enough to capture that. But no effect :-(

Post's attachments

Analog device Potplayer 288.png 45.63 kb, 244 downloads since 2012-11-07 

Analog device Potplayer 576.png 40.36 kb, 213 downloads since 2012-11-07 

custom filter.png 53.92 kb, 249 downloads since 2012-11-07 

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

more screen shots:

Post's attachments

Filter Potplayer.png 278.82 kb, 253 downloads since 2012-11-07 

Unbenannt.png 133.28 kb, 241 downloads since 2012-11-07 

Unbenannt2.png 65.64 kb, 226 downloads since 2012-11-07 

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

more:

Post's attachments

Unbenannt3.png 78.99 kb, 220 downloads since 2012-11-07 

Unbenannt4.png 79.63 kb, 200 downloads since 2012-11-07 

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

noos
but I was not fast enough to capture that

"Information" -> "Last launch log" and "Additional information" from SVP menu would be more helpful wink

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

Sorry and thanks!

I get video, but no motion interpolation :-(

Post's attachments

Log.txt 65.21 kb, 683 downloads since 2012-11-07 

  • MAG79
  • SVP developer
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 1104
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

noos

25 * (3 : 1) = 75 fps

25 * (4 : 1) = 100 fps

30 * (10 : 3) = 100 fps

30 * (1 : 1) = 30 fps

25 * (1 : 1) = 25 fps

It is strange. Different output framerate.

1. What refresh rate have your projector (or monitor)? 75 Hz or 100 Hz?
2. What value have profile setting "Target frame rate"? To screen refresh rate?
3. Please show your additional info: SVP tray menu - Information - Additional information.

  • MAG79
  • SVP developer
  • Offline

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

noos
And thank you! I found some cases with errors that we will fix in next version:

352.398 * (2 : 7) = 100.685 fps

Very high input framerate. In this case smoothing must be disabled.

89.917 * (2 : 1) = 179.834 fps

Very high output framerate. In this case question is asked. But I think we need add setting to disable smoothing while output framerate higher than screen refreshrate.

1328.727 * (2 : 1) = 2657.454 fps

OMG! Disable smoothing in this case too!

12 Reply by noos (edited by noos 08-11-2012 18:52:03)

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

MAG79 wrote:

noos

25 * (3 : 1) = 75 fps

25 * (4 : 1) = 100 fps

30 * (10 : 3) = 100 fps

30 * (1 : 1) = 30 fps

25 * (1 : 1) = 25 fps

It is strange. Different output framerate.

1. What refresh rate have your projector (or monitor)? 75 Hz or 100 Hz?
2. What value have profile setting "Target frame rate"? To screen refresh rate?
3. Please show your additional info: SVP tray menu - Information - Additional information.


Hello,

and thanks a lot for your efforts!!!!

1. With my CRTs I  choose an even muliple of the source frame rate. So with Pal film material, I use 75 or 100 refreshrate - depending how many frames  my PC can do.
2. When my PC is able to do 3x 25, I will do it. If my pc can do 100, I will 4x Pal film to 100, or I choose "To screen refresh rate". If not, I choose 2x.
3. I will do another run on my Pc, with not changing so much  - I will explain in the next post when I answer your last post. Thnaks for going through all the strange results!

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

MAG79 wrote:

noos
And thank you! I found some cases with errors that we will fix in next version:

352.398 * (2 : 7) = 100.685 fps

Very high input framerate. In this case smoothing must be disabled.

89.917 * (2 : 1) = 179.834 fps

Very high output framerate. In this case question is asked. But I think we need add setting to disable smoothing while output framerate higher than screen refreshrate.

1328.727 * (2 : 1) = 2657.454 fps

OMG! Disable smoothing in this case too!


Thanks to you. You are the SVP genuises - I only stumble around on my PC´s. 

Yes, strange results! I have added a shot (yesterday) of the resolution I can choose in the analog menu of potplayer for the capture card. There are dozens resultions in combination with refresh rates and colour spaces, but I choose 768X576 25hz as input, or 768x288 50hz. With 768x288 50hz I get thes high results, so I dropped it and went back to 768x576 25hz as input for film based material.
But yesterday I changed a dozen times between several options, so I will run today again to provide more clear and the additional data you ask for in the last post.

I will be back in 20 min with the informations

  • Thanks: 1620
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

Lets try to keep it simple smile

Start your 25hz input, set CRT framerate to 100Hz and run SVP.
Then press Ctrl+F1 in PotPlayer and make a screenshot.
Then open Information - PErformance graphs window in SVP and make another screenshot.

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

So I just did a more clean run. I hope I included all settings and results.

The DVD film is playing (Bond - Casino Royal), goinig from a DVD Player via YUV into the capture card. Pot palyer is showing the film, SVP is reporing to work - but no motion interpolation.

Thanks for your help!

Post's attachments

input resolution. frame rate. colour space..png 43.6 kb, 238 downloads since 2012-11-08 

Log.txt 2.72 kb, 619 downloads since 2012-11-08 

SVP settings.png 257 kb, 251 downloads since 2012-11-08 

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

debug....

Post's attachments

debuginfo.txt 1.61 kb, 618 downloads since 2012-11-08 

  • MAG79
  • SVP developer
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 1104
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

noos
I saw two graphics problems at your screenshot:
1. I have never seen such bad work of alfablending (see dark gray rectangle on PayPal sign). Aflablending works incorrect at your system.
2. What the green bar at the bottom of PotPlayer?

http://www.svp-team.com/forum/misc.php?item=1942

no motion interpolation
3. What renderer do you using?

It is still lack of info to solve the problem.
4. Please do what Chainik ask you.

Post's attachments

Graphics_problems.png, 52.13 kb, 908 x 506
Graphics_problems.png 52.13 kb, 655 downloads since 2012-11-08 

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

Thanks again for the input, ideas and time you spend!


Sorry at Chainik, as I did not see his post yesterday. I vvas busy vvriting my second answer. I vvill do so soon as he said!

1: Alfablending, can it be corrected?
2: The green bar depends on the input setting of the capture card. VVith some resolutions it is better/vvorse, with some it is not existent. I mostly depends if I choose 768 or 720 or 7xx as horiontal input. But I only have to move the picture in potplayer - so no lines are lost as they show up under the upper boarder, and the green part does dissaper then fully at the lovver side. SO it only needs to be centered. It takes long to move the picture, as only on screen commans vvith the mouse vvork for me, and no keyboard buttons can be used for moving the picture at my htpc. Other commands vvor on keyboard!???

3: the renderer should be right, as I vvas honoured to enjoy your SVP effect vvith video files. But I ill check in a moment vvhen I do Chainik setup.

until soon and sorry that  w  is not vvorking on this machine I use novv

  • MAG79
  • SVP developer
  • Offline

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

1. I don't know. Is this version of windows original and work correct?

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

Hello,


I hope that I was able to screenshot the data as Chainik asked for.
No motion interpolation on external input.

I really appreciate your efforts.


Noos

Post's attachments

Unbenannt.png 40.23 kb, 221 downloads since 2012-11-11 

Unbenannt2.png 69.27 kb, 224 downloads since 2012-11-11 

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

MAG79 wrote:

1. I don't know. Is this version of windows original and work correct?

Yup, windows is fine. I only do gamma correction over the nvidia panel.

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

noos
I hope that I was able to screenshot the data as Chainik asked for.

looks fine
really, it works. I've no idea why you can't see it  hmm

23 Reply by noos (edited by noos 11-11-2012 13:35:43)

  • noos
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 5
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: SVP + Dscaler or oth. software for capture cards (PDI, sweetspot..)

So far, thanks al lot. Really good support.

Well, I will continue to try on other Pc´s until I can afford a black magic design intensity pro. Then I will try again and report.

You have created a great tool, please continue your work! If I would not be dependend on external sources, I would run everything through SVP. (As I wrote, I am a home theater user, and like others, I have a lot of video sources like laserdisks, game consoles.... )

When I think about you geniuses who have created SVP, I have to think about some others who created the darbee vision and the algorithm behind it: http://darbeevision.com/

They could have been generous like you SVP guys are, and offered the codec (or how ever it is called) to the public for voluntary money support.
(I even know HTPC users who offered 50-100$ to use the "Darbee" codec in their HTPC)
But they did not. Pobably because they want to earn money with the darbee boxes. But with their boxes they can reach niche market, with people paying a lot to enhance their multi input video chain.

Probably you guys will one day licence  SVP to a chip or videoprocessor company, or you will bring out you own external processor one day. 

Good luck on your way!