26 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

raider10 wrote:

Well, definitely, I must have some kind of issue. In automatic mode with your settings, I'm not going over 63fps (which is already pretty good for me). I don't see any noticeable artifacts, but the movie I tested—aside from some vegetation and very fast movements—doesn't have many challenging scenes. However, I do have a config added to the override.js file; I'm not sure if that's a good thing or just a coincidence."

"I think my bottleneck might be the CPU, an i5 12400f with only 12 threads; I can't think of anything else. I'm leaving my override settings here—I got them from a thread on this forum, but I don't remember which one

levels.pel = 2;
levels.scale.up    = 2;
levels.scale.down    = 4;
levels.full     = true;
analyse.block.w    = 32;
analyse.block.h    = 32;
analyse.block.overlap    = 1;
analyse.main.levels    = 4;
analyse.main.search.type   = 4;
analyse.main.search.distance = -24;
analyse.main.search.coarse.type  = 4;
analyse.main.search.coarse.distance  = -5;
analyse.main.search.coarse.bad.range  = 0;
analyse.main.penalty.lambda   = 1.0;
analyse.main.penalty.plevel   = 4.0;
analyse.main.penalty.lsad   = 800;
analyse.main.penalty.pnew   = 5;
analyse.main.penalty.pglobal   = 5;
analyse.main.penalty.pzero   = 10;
analyse.main.penalty.pnbour   = 5;
analyse.main.penalty.prev   = 0;
analyse.refine[0] = {thsad:2000, search:{distance:2, type:4}};
smooth.rate.num = 5;
smooth.rate.den = 2;
smooth.algo = 21;
smooth.scene.mode = 0;
smooth.mask.cover = 10;
smooth.scene.limits.m1 = 3600;
smooth.scene.limits.m2 = 7200;
smooth.scene.limits.scene = 10400;
smooth.scene.limits.zero = 10;
smooth.scene.limits.blocks = 90;

My settings are mostly made in the SVP Manager with only a couple of overrides as I've explained in earlier posts. Just by eyeballing it, I see it's mostly defaults. But with a quick check I see settings outside recommended values, some will cause more stuttering, others just plain wrong. I left the majority of the settings alone because I didn't understand them enough and some of those settings seem to be the ones that have been changed. I get the rationale behind the algorithm change but from personal experience this will increase stuttering.  But to be fair, now that I've looked up the new multiplier and it does make sense but not for me running with my display running at 120fps. So I am interested in reading the rationale behind these changes. Especially the penalties.

As for the bottleneck,  you know what your CPU and GPU stats are. But your settings might be making SVP the bottleneck which is what I've been talking about with my most recent posts.

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27 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

raider10 wrote:

OK, I'll try those settings without touching anything else anywhere or in any other file. I'll see how the artifacts look; with RIFE, it's very rare to see any, even in complicated sequences. Thanks, I'll let you know how it goes.

If you are not seeing artifacts with your content then you could probably get away with using something like RIFE v4.18 or earlier which should work on most GPUs without issue.

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28 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

raider10 wrote:

I'm going to test this configuration in automatic mode. Do I need to do anything specific in the override.js file?



dawkinscm wrote:

These are my current settings for running at 120fps. I am no longer overriding PEL for quarter pixel accuracy as half a pixel is enough. I've found that Average Artifacts masking with the Standard SVP shader is the best combination for removing even the more difficult fast motion vertical artifacts. The other settings are down to your GPU capabilities, but this is the smoothest and most artifact free results I've had using SVP. The remaining difficult to get rid of double images can be reduced fuirther by overriding the main search algorithm to use SATD instead of SAD. However the SVP manual says that it is Extremely slow and do not use it! plus it's not even listed when you select "All Settings". But it does work if you want to try it.

I tried using these settings at 60fps. Fast motion and clarity are more or less the same, but slow pans are not quite as smooth and would require more work. I didn't check for artifacts but I doubt there would be any major difference. But at 120fps, these settings should provide smooth motion for problem slow pans and clarity for difficult to track fast action. Same as RIFE but without many of the problems, including vertical fast motion artifacts and occlusion errors. There may be other artifacts I have yet to find. But the most difficult ones I have previously listed with timestamps are fixed using these settings.

Small update:Mvg 12 px seems to be the SVP default, it's better so I'm using it. 8 px does the best job but at the cost of small artifacts with some edge cases.

@Chainik said in another thread that SVP Pro is the best. He's not wrong.

I've corrected and updated my reply to you with more information.

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29 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

raider10 wrote:

I'm going to test this configuration in automatic mode. Do I need to do anything specific in the override.js file?



dawkinscm wrote:

These are my current settings for running at 120fps. I am no longer overriding PEL for quarter pixel accuracy as half a pixel is enough. I've found that Average Artifacts masking with the Standard SVP shader is the best combination for removing even the more difficult fast motion vertical artifacts. The other settings are down to your GPU capabilities, but this is the smoothest and most artifact free results I've had using SVP. The remaining difficult to get rid of double images can be reduced fuirther by overriding the main search algorithm to use SATD instead of SAD. However the SVP manual says that it is Extremely slow and do not use it! plus it's not even listed when you select "All Settings". But it does work if you want to try it.

I tried using these settings at 60fps. Fast motion and clarity are more or less the same, but slow pans are not quite as smooth and would require more work. I didn't check for artifacts but I doubt there would be any major difference. But at 120fps, these settings should provide smooth motion for problem slow pans and clarity for difficult to track fast action. Same as RIFE but without many of the problems, including vertical fast motion artifacts and occlusion errors. There may be other artifacts I have yet to find. But the most difficult ones I have previously listed with timestamps are fixed using these settings.

Small update:Mvg 12 px seems to be the SVP default, it's better so I'm using it. 8 px does the best job but at the cost of small artifacts with some edge cases.

@Chainik said in another thread that SVP Pro is the best. He's not wrong.

It depends.  I've improved upon Motion vectors settings since then so I would advise playing with them after trying the above because what worked for me might not for you. As for overrides, I modified the block size as I outline here:https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopi … 119#p88119. Check the manual page for the options. In that same post I also changed the main search algorithm. But I no longer do that for the reasons I mentioned in my most recent post just above yours on this thread. But in summary, if you are not careful then SVP becomes the bottleneck.

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30 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

If the GPU is no longer the bottleneck when using SVP then my natural inclination is to turn everything up. All my previous settings were mostly based on turning most SVP settings up to get better results than even RIFE v26 Heavy. it works well enough, until it doesn't for something more difficult like the intro to Hugo. Adding more advanced settings or turning everything up to the max just shifts the bottle neck from the GPU to the application. The trick is actually to turn off unnecessary SVP settings so that it does just enough processing to remove artifacts and smooth motion, but not so much that it  struggles to process frames. For my setup that involved changing the vector block sizes and using quarter pixel motion pixel accuracy (which the manual says is "not recommended" so YMMV). But I also turn off Wide Search and reduce the size of the top course level.

RIFE puts uses so much GPU resources that this aspect of SVP goes unnoticed. But to repeat myself, SVP Pro with the right settings uses substantially less GPU while clearly working better than RIFE so it really is no longer necessary. It just requires a bit of reading and a lot of trial and error smile Unless of course you are just watching Anime then an earlier RIFE engine which uses relatively few GPU resources might be perfect for you.

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31 Reply by dawkinscm

(1 replies, posted in Using SVP)

SATD really smooths motion and helped a lot with Hugo. But it caused other issues which I'm certain wouldn't be a problem on a TV but are apparent on a large screen. Basically SVP becomes the bottleneck. So I removed SATD from main search, reduced the vertical block size back to default and tweaked the other settings to get as close as possible to SATD smoothness. But this still left the Hugo intro a bit choppy. The final piece of the puzzle was using merge adjacent frames to smooth out the stutters. This combination gives me SATD like smoothness but without SVP showing subtle signs of being a bottleneck.

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32 Topic by dawkinscm

(1 replies, posted in Using SVP)

With my previous non RIFE settings I forgot to test the intro to Hugo which is a brutal test of difficult scene changes and slow pans. If you have a large screen then you might not see the nano stutters, but with the wrong settings you will see the micro stutters. My settings failed the Hugo test but it taught me that I turned up almost every setting up to max increasing complexity, making SVP more likely to be the bottleneck. I also came across another artifact in Alita that I haven't noticed before.  The main fix seems to be increasing vector block sizes to 32 which also reduces complexity but is potentially less accurate. I had already overridden the main search to SATD but I also returned the PEL quarter pixel override.  Both of these increase computation complexity but they also increase accuracy. Then I reduced the complexity of the ancillary settings including removing SATD from the search radius. More smoothness was achieved from using SADT in the main SVPAnalyze than making changes to the lesser settings.

The new settings are shown below. If you have seen my other settings then the changes will be obvious. Even with these settings the Hugo intro still has some nano stutters but I don't think most people will see them. For the "advanced" changes I have attached the relevant sections from the manual below the main SVP manager window. PEL is not included but it's on the same manual page. These settings are very advanced so anyone trying them should be careful.

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33 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

RAGEdemon wrote:

The later models are progressively heavier by 20% each iteration since 4.4 but offer very little improvement. The later models are mostly trained on anime.

4.4_v2 is literally 2x the performance (half the GPU usage) of 4.25. It doesn't make sense to use later versions after 4.4_v2 except mostly placebo.

Yes RIFE has been almost exclusively trained on Anime. But RIFE v4.25 and 4.26 Heavy are definitely not placebo for smoothness when watching on a larger screen. Also later versions have less noticeable artifacts, unless you are lucky enough to be watching content not affected by them. If you must use RIFE (which I don't think you should) then v4.18 might be the best compromise for performance vs smoothness and artifacts. I think RIFE v4.7 or v4.9 were also pretty decent but it's been a while since I tried those.

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34 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

These are my current settings for running at 120fps. I am no longer overriding PEL for quarter pixel accuracy as half a pixel is enough. I've found that Average Artifacts masking with the Standard SVP shader is the best combination for removing even the more difficult fast motion vertical artifacts. The other settings are down to your GPU capabilities, but this is the smoothest and most artifact free results I've had using SVP. The remaining difficult to get rid of double images can be reduced fuirther by overriding the main search algorithm to use SATD instead of SAD. However the SVP manual says that it is Extremely slow and do not use it! plus it's not even listed when you select "All Settings". But it does work if you want to try it.

I tried using these settings at 60fps. Fast motion and clarity are more or less the same, but slow pans are not quite as smooth and would require more work. I didn't check for artifacts but I doubt there would be any major difference. But at 120fps, these settings should provide smooth motion for problem slow pans and clarity for difficult to track fast action. Same as RIFE but without many of the problems, including vertical fast motion artifacts and occlusion errors. There may be other artifacts I have yet to find. But the most difficult ones I have previously listed with timestamps are fixed using these settings.

Small update:Mvg 12 px seems to be the SVP default, it's better so I'm using it. 8 px does the best job but at the cost of small artifacts with some edge cases.

@Chainik said in another thread that SVP Pro is the best. He's not wrong.

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35 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

raider10 wrote:

Everything looks correct: memory is in dual channel, PCIe 4.0 is OK. No issues in games or under extreme load in DaVinci. This is odd, though: the GPU is at 99% usage, drawing 300-320W. CPU 45%. i5 12400, 32GB RAM.
Anyway... no big deal. It might be something weird, but it’s always worked like this for me. It’s nothing new.

You're right, this is odd. On the 4080 I get 99% because I'm using VR. Turn off VR then GPU goes down to 90%. The 5080 has more Cuda cores, higher base and boost frequencies and more memory bandwidth. The only thing I can think of is if somehow you have run out of PCIE lanes because of a motherboard limit. I would suggest trying the normal Rife version and not the v2 version just in case.

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36 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

raider10 wrote:

I really don't understand what could be wrong, transcoding won't go past 35 fps. This afternoon I did a clean install of SVP; I only kept the vsmlrt file where I had tweaked some settings for Nvidia.

I hope someone can help (I'm transcoding full videos to save and watch later, not for real-time playback, though I assume that makes no difference).

I wouldn't tweak vsmlrt unless you know what you are doing. I recommend going back to the original one. Also you might as well try real time to see if you can hit 60fps. If you can't then it's something else you are doing. If you can, then it's your transcoding config.

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37 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

raider10 wrote:
oriento wrote:

a 5090 cannot do 120fps for 4k

edit: i have tested right now, and rife 4.25v2 gives me 85fps at transcoding 4k with my 5090


I have an RTX 5080 but I can't get past 32 or 35 fps. Do you have any special settings? Have you changed anything to make it run faster?

I know I won't reach 80 or 90 fps, but I'm aiming for at least 50 or 60 fps for transcoding. Right now, almost everything takes double the video duration to finish, and the card is maxing out at 320W.

Thanks

With Rife v4.25 an RTX 4080 does 60fps in real time using about 90% GPU. So you shouldn't be struggling with a 5080.  I'm not sure but I assume RIFE is still smoother than SVP at 60fps But if you have a 120fps TV then you might be better off not using RIFE for the reasons I mention above.

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38 Reply by dawkinscm

(2 replies, posted in Using SVP)

I made a copy of the Automatic Profile with the slider set to highest performance and started tweaking settings from there. If you hover over each setting, it tells you what it does. If you can't use RIFE then my current SVP settings wont work for you. I recommend running the SVP performance check, making a copy of that Automatic profile and trying each setting to see what difference it makes.

You could also try just running LSFG  on its own with a x2 multiplier to get 48fps which for me was smoother than running at 24fps. LSFG is much lighter on the GPU but it also has the same (or sometimes worse) artifacts as RIFE which is the downside. A discussion with @RickyAstle98 about my SVP settings, RIFE and LSFG are in here:https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7904. He uses LSFG with SVP Rife which you can't do, but it enables use of a higher fps with RIFE. So maybe you can also use LSFG with just SVP (no RIFE) to get the best overall results.

I also posted some settings in the main RIFE discussion thread which you could also try. But they use nvof and require a pretty decent GPU.

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39 Reply by dawkinscm

(3 replies, posted in Using SVP)

flowreen91 wrote:

gpu-api=vulkan
hwdec=vulkan
gives weird artifacts when jumping around in the timeline in mpv
https://gyazo.com/7b320461bc117dbf7c3dc4f5234b2773

Try this instead?
hwdec=vulkan-copy

It only has that weird artifact once starting the video and shows this in console (not sure if relevant)
https://gyazo.com/ae97a333c9a7cd7319dd0e70620aa150
Probably should be reported to mpv guys?

Nevermind someone already mentioned this behaviour:
https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/issues/17175

Thanks. I don't get the green screen but I do get the distortion but only on scene changes within SVP and it usually doesn't last long. I found vulkan-copy was worse which is why I switched to just plain Vulkan.

Either way, Vulkan with SVP Pro using "High Quality" Automatic profile and a few tweaked settings  is (for me) as smooth and clear as RIFE v26 Heavy with next to no artifacts. My previous nvof settings were very good, but strange how the basic Automatic profile now works so well. I don't think it's the 50 series card because SVP+Vulkan actually works more better with my iGPU than my Nvidia dGPU.

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40 Topic by dawkinscm

(3 replies, posted in Using SVP)

SVP is smoothest when using Vulkan hwdec with Vulkan api or context. But if I use winvk context then pixelation occurs and usually with exactly the same scene changes. If I use Vulkan api then it is less frequent and a quick rewind normally fixes the issue. Might be partially an Nvidia issue because when using Vulkan gpu-api it occurs even less on my integrated AMD card. But when using winvk context it still occurs on both cards. The symptoms also point to a memory leak as closing and restarting helps. I'm not sure if the leak is with mpv or SVP or both.

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41 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Recently I noticed that setting my TV display refresh rate to 120Hz helps in reducing the workload when running at 120fps. Obvious I know. But what it means is that SVP only needs to perform a gentle smoothing operation which is well within it's capabilities and nvof is not needed either. For confirmation I tried running without SVP at 120hz and the jerkiness came back. Then I tried mvp interpolation on my PC and same thing happened. So SVP is definitely working and tweaked a little I see all the smoothness of RIFE but none of the obvious artifacts or occlusion errors.

Using the SVP "Automatic" profile and performance slider moved all the way across to "Higher Quality" I got this running at 70% on my integrated GPU. But some of the processing was still leaking into my 50 series so maybe it would be running at around 95% without it. The easiest option would be to set the refresh rate to the highest matching SVP rate, rerun SVP "Assess System Performance". I've tweaked it further to increase smoothness and remove all artifacts (so far). I don't think this is if this is TV model dependent because I'm using VR so any extra TV processing is probably lost.

P.S. On PC, when matching refresh rates, using Vulkan is the smoothest providing RIFE like fluidity with basic SVP settings. But depending on the config, some pixelation may occur when using Nvidia cards.

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42 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

kellykline wrote:

Why doesn't SVP update the AI Model? The latest I have on there is 4.18. I don't see 4.25.

I no longer user RIFE but 4.18 is a good model to use because it has many of the benefits of RIFE without needed a beefy GPU like a 4080. I wouldn't recommend 4.25 for anything less than maybe a 4070.

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43 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

oriento wrote:

sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you said him to configure 120hz at real time

Yes SVP real time at 120 is no problem without Rife. I know SVP without Rife can run at even 240fps because I have done it. But with Rife 25+ SVP tops out at around 80fps.

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44 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

oriento wrote:

a 5090 cannot do 120fps for 4k

Yes it can, yes it does, can actually go way beyond that and in 3D too. But maybe SVP is lying to me.

oriento wrote:

a 5090 cannot do 120fps for 4k

edit: i have tested right now, and rife 4.25v2 gives me 85fps at transcoding 4k with my 5090

Same here. But I'm not using Rife which is what I've been saying every post for the past week including the one below I posted just yesterday:

dawkinscm wrote:

Rife 26 heavy is stuck at around 80fps although I haven't pushed it recently. Don't worry about v2 models, especially with a 5090.

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45 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

brazen1 wrote:
dawkinscm wrote:
brazen1 wrote:

Unable to select 4.26 Heavy using Tensor RT.  It only appears and becomes selectable using ncnn/Vulkan and has OSD errors during playback.

You're doing something wrong. But it doesn't matter because it's not an upgrade. 26 Heavy has been out for around a year, this is just a fix for some conversion errors. It is better than before but still has artifacts.

I'm a fairly new user and trying to learn. Thank you for the reply. I use SVP for transcoding videos permanently I will revisit from time to time. I also use SVP processing in real time for watch and delete video. I've been using 4.25 and noticed the link for 4.26 heavy. Although 4.26 heavy is old, the site shows it was upgraded just a few days ago and thought I'd give it a whirl and see if transcoding times lessoned without compromising quality and how real time processing compared. Taking your word for it, I'll just avoid it. Thanks for the heads-up.

Hoping for any and all insight from the community which is always appreciated.

Since you have a 5090 just leave the default Rife models installed by SVP then add the fixed 26 Heavy to the Rife folder. I don't know anything about non real time transcoding. But since you have a 5090 you might as well just use real time transcoding.  Then you might want to compare Rife 26 Heavy with my settings I posted earlier. Very similar results with Rife sometimes being a little bit smoother and clearer. But my settings have no artifacts (so far) and runs up to 120fps and beyond on a 5090. Rife 26 heavy is stuck at around 80fps although I haven't pushed it recently. Don't worry about v2 models, especially with a 5090.

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46 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

brazen1 wrote:
dawkinscm wrote:
flowreen91 wrote:

I found this panning scene useful for smooth tests:

Slideshow Hero - S04E01 - 1080p
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ls-VdL … E_X7x/view

They just updated latest RIFE model to fix "abnormal artifacts" https://github.com/AmusementClub/vs-mlrt/issues/155 :
https://github.com/AmusementClub/vs-mlr … nal-models

Now we can finally upgrade the RIFE model after more than a year.

I hope so because while RIFE is still the smoothest the few remaining artifacts were horrible. In my testing I was able to remove every RIFE 25/26 artifact from all my test scenes using SVP. But if the new 26 heavy can remove those artifacts too then I'm there. I'm still impressed with what SVP can achieve though and if the new 26 heavy isn't that much better then I have no issue using SVP with LSFG smile

Unable to select 4.26 Heavy using Tensor RT.  It only appears and becomes selectable using ncnn/Vulkan and has OSD errors during playback.

You're doing something wrong. But it doesn't matter because it's not an upgrade. 26 Heavy has been out for around a year, this is just a fix for some conversion errors. It is better than before but still has artifacts.

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47 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

These are my new best settings which are very close to RIFE for fast motion clarity and RIFE/LSFG for slow pans but without the horrible vertical motion artifacts.  The kind of artifacts and tiny micro-stutters that are visible in VR probably won't be visible on a normal TV. So if your GPU can handle NVOF, then I wouldn't be surprised if motion with these new settings look as good and works as well as RIFE v26-Heavy for some of you.

BTW With these settings I can run up to 240fps on a high end 50 series card although the picture quality suffers with too many fake frames. So maybe 120fps on a 5070ti or 4080? I would be interested in hearing any feedback on this with different GPUs I recommend Motion vectors grid: 16 px

Good Luck and Have Fun! smile

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48 Reply by dawkinscm

(58 replies, posted in Using SVP)

RickyAstle98 wrote:
dawkinscm wrote:
RickyAstle98 wrote:

I dont know, but LSFG cant create more quality frames from already bad frames, since RIFE had own artifacts, LSFG just doubles/triples/quadruples the amount.

For me, RIFE v4.15v2l x3 + LSFG x3/240 create much more consistent frames, fluid.

But LSFG is generating this on it's own without RIFE. Objects on the screen become so warped they become almost unrecognizable. But only with this one movie.

Anyway, thats better than 24>240 natively which pulls my GPU at above 80 degrees huh, also not smooth.

Warped? You can play with tolerances, warped UI? Can play with UI detection thresholds.

OK I don't know what happened before, but I now have LSFG running very smoothly with slow pans pretty much like RIFE. But also like RIFE, Man of Steel (and I'm guessing other fast vertical motions) cause Artifacts. So I had another play with SVP and this is also now have smooth with slow pans, although maybe not quite as smooth as LSFG/RIFE. But using "Strong" Artifacts masking, Man of Steel and other fast vertical motions do not cause the same artifacts. In fact I struggle to find any artifacts using SVP Pro. But at least now I know that LSFG can match RIFE which is very interesting.

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49 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Yeah HAGS is a little broken, but is needed for some key features which I couldn't try out on my 40 series like Nvidia Smooth Motion. It very smooth but it also has similar artifacts to RIFE so I'm back to just plain old SVP smile

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50 Reply by dawkinscm

(2,525 replies, posted in Using SVP)

If it's only stuttery on 50 series then it probably doesn't like Win 11 Hardware GPU allocation. What's funny is that  I have other programs that didn't like it with my 40 series but are fine with it on my 50 series. If they fix it then I will give it another try. In the mean time it's either SVP+Rife or more likely just SVP with my new settings. Nice to have the choice smile

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