Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

aloola wrote:

1080@x5 HAGS OFF 4t build 5 in 331.55 seconds
Output 8000 frames in 45.79 seconds (174.70 fps) 4.15 lite
Output 8000 frames in 52.86 seconds (151.35 fps) 4.15

1080@x5 HAGS OFF 4t build 4 in 101.19 seconds
Output 8000 frames in 37.26 seconds (214.68 fps) 4.15 lite
Output 8000 frames in 54.36 seconds (147.16 fps) 4.15

1080@x5 HAGS OFF 4t build 3 in 70.20 seconds
Output 8000 frames in 39.49 seconds (202.59 fps) 4.15 lite
Output 8000 frames in 51.14 seconds (156.42 fps) 4.15

1080@x5 HAGS OFF 4t build 2 in 41.65 seconds
Output 8000 frames in 36.79 seconds (217.45 fps) 4.15 lite
Output 8000 frames in 51.62 seconds (154.99 fps) 4.15

1080@x5 HAGS OFF 4t build 1 in 41.60 seconds
Output 8000 frames in 36.44 seconds (219.55 fps) 4.15 lite
Output 8000 frames in 52.00 seconds (153.83 fps) 4.15

1080@x5 HAGS OFF 4t build 0 in 22.14 seconds
Output 8000 frames in 42.09 seconds (190.09 fps) 4.15 lite
Output 8000 frames in 63.52 seconds (125.95 fps) 4.15

4Kx2 HAGS OFF 4t build 0 in 23.42 seconds
Output 2000 frames in 36.49 seconds (54.80 fps) 4.15 lite
Output 2000 frames in 51.31 seconds (38.98 fps) 4.15

4Kx2 HAGS OFF 4t build 1 in 77.06 seconds
Output 2000 frames in 33.16 seconds (60.32 fps) 4.15 lite
Output 2000 frames in 39.89 seconds (50.14 fps) 4.15

4Kx2 HAGS OFF 4t build 2 in 88.97 seconds
Output 2000 frames in 33.50 seconds (59.69 fps) 4.15 lite
Output 2000 frames in 40.41 seconds (49.49 fps) 4.15

4Kx2 HAGS OFF 4t build 3 in 135.63 seconds
Output 2000 frames in 33.19 seconds (60.26 fps) 4.15 lite
Output 2000 frames in 38.83 seconds (51.51 fps) 4.15

4Kx2 HAGS OFF 4t build 4 in 172.76 seconds
Output 2000 frames in 34.21 seconds (58.46 fps) 4.15 lite
Output 2000 frames in 39.08 seconds (51.17 fps) 4.15

4Kx2 HAGS OFF 4t build 4 in 566.31 seconds
Output 2000 frames in 33.42 seconds (59.85 fps) 4.15 lite
Output 2000 frames in 39.04 seconds (51.23 fps) 4.15


well just stick with build 3 (default) or build 2 for faster build


Hi!

Sorry for the stupid Question!

But , How can i get Benchmark Values?

And what is HAGS?

What do you mean?

Thanks smile

1,402

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

unrealit wrote:

Hi!

Sorry for the stupid Question!

But , How can i get Benchmark Values?

And what is HAGS?

What do you mean?

Thanks smile

use the script here.
https://github.com/AmusementClub/vs-mlrt/discussions/19

HAGS = Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling
you could google it for more info.

In RIFE with HAGS on performance might drop up to 25%.

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

aloola wrote:
unrealit wrote:

Hi!

Sorry for the stupid Question!

But , How can i get Benchmark Values?

And what is HAGS?

What do you mean?

Thanks smile

use the script here.
https://github.com/AmusementClub/vs-mlrt/discussions/19

HAGS = Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling
you could google it for more info.

In RIFE with HAGS on performance might drop up to 25%.

HAGS ON is 25% perf drop? I think it would increase performance, no?

1,404 (edited by dawkinscm 05-04-2024 15:44:05)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

RickyAstle98 wrote:
aloola wrote:
unrealit wrote:

Hi!

Sorry for the stupid Question!

But , How can i get Benchmark Values?

And what is HAGS?

What do you mean?

Thanks smile

use the script here.
https://github.com/AmusementClub/vs-mlrt/discussions/19

HAGS = Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling
you could google it for more info.

In RIFE with HAGS on performance might drop up to 25%.

HAGS ON is 25% perf drop? I think it would increase performance, no?

The reviews I've read of the feature suggests that any difference it makes to games is minimal at best. But it seems that for non games it can make things worse. I think I learned about turning it off a year ago or so from a chat I was having about VR performance issues.

1,405 (edited by SHTH34D 05-04-2024 16:22:14)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Would it be possible to get an option in SVP to turn HAGS off? It's needed for certain functions (DLSS 3 Frame Generation) and I really don't want to have to turn it off and restart my pc every time I watch a movie.

1,406 (edited by Xenocyde 05-04-2024 16:50:33)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

SHTH34D wrote:

Would it be possible to get an option in SVP to turn HAGS off? It's needed for certain functions (DLSS 3 Frame Generation) and I really don't want to have to turn it off and restart my pc every time I watch a movie.

Don't think you can deactivate it for specific programs in real-time. It's either off or on when the OS boots up.

1,407 (edited by abraxas 05-04-2024 17:51:00)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

RickyAstle98 wrote:

HAGS ON is 25% perf drop? I think it would increase performance, no?

There isn't a perf drop in every situation. I did some research earlier, it was a "big" problem especially with Windows 10 and - later on - with 30xx GPUs from Nvidia. With the 40s you can actually nearly always switch on HAGS, in particular it is a mandatory requirement for DLSS3. Also important seems to be a CPU, which is always bored anyway (i.e. the CPU has no problem doing the scheduling work).

My own (not very extensive) tests showed that there is no recognizable difference in RIFE with my 4070 and i9 12900KF (Win11 24H2, Build 26100.1). Note: I'm not really interested in pure FPS, I'm interested in whether I can see/"feel" it and how the load on the GPU develops (i.e. how much room for improvement there is). With the 4K movies, which I downscale to slightly more than 1440p, there was no difference at x2.

But - your milage may vary, I suggest doing some testing yourself. Especially if you are using VR.

Update: I'm sorry, I can't post another answer... DLSS3 frame generation and 6% performance improvement is a rounding error.

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

abraxas wrote:
RickyAstle98 wrote:

HAGS ON is 25% perf drop? I think it would increase performance, no?

There isn't a perf drop in every situation. I did some research earlier, it was a "big" problem especially with Windows 10 and - later on - with 30xx GPUs from Nvidia. With the 40s you can actually nearly always switch on HAGS, in particular it is a mandatory requirement for DLSS3. Also important seems to be a CPU, which is always bored anyway (i.e. the CPU has no problem doing the scheduling work).

My own (not very extensive) tests showed that there is no recognizable difference in RIFE with my 4070 and i9 12900KF (Win11 24H2, Build 26100.1). Note: I'm not really interested in pure FPS, I'm interested in whether I can see/"feel" it and how the load on the GPU develops (i.e. how much room for improvement there is). With the 4K movies, which I downscale to slightly more than 1440p, there was no difference at x2.

But - your milage may vary, I suggest doing some testing yourself. Especially if you are using VR.

Its not requirement for DLSS3, its requirement for DLSS frame generation itself, and I tested right now, I see about 6% performance increase with HAGS OFF! In games all FPS are the same, RTX 4070/12700!

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

abraxas wrote:

But - your milage may vary, I suggest doing some testing yourself. Especially if you are using VR.

Already have. HAGS is a problem for the VR streaming app I use.

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Hi guys. Sorry for the Google translation. There is 13900K+4090+DDR5+6800cl32. Monitor G7 1440p 240Hz. Before that I used DmitriRender for a very long time, and before it there was SVP for a long time, almost from the beginning of its appearance. With the new system I'm trying to switch to RIFE, since there are fewer artifacts. Can I ask you a few questions?
1. Used to MPC-BE and MPC-HC. Works well with them. Can I use them, or is MPV better?
2. Always used mpcVR. It works well too. Can I use it, or is madVR better? It's just that mpcVR converts HDR>SDR much more easily, using much less system resources than madVR.
3. For downscaling 4K>1440p I used mpcVR Jinc2m (with DmitriRender). Now at RIFE there is a lot of workload with this. The only working solution I found is After video frame size - Decrease to screen in SVP. If I understand correctly, this is downscaling BEFORE, not AFTER, and RIFE copes with this much easier. But this downscaling is of worse quality than Jinc2m. Is there any other option other than After video frame size - Decrease to screen? So that it does not affect performance.
4. GPU threads 4? Performance boost enabled?
5. What are Ensemble and V2? For some reason V2 does not work for me, and Ensemble puts almost twice as much load on the video card without obvious differences in the image. Is it better to use the regular 4.15 lite?
6. Is it possible to somehow increase the Scene change threshold? Since 15% is not enough and in very dynamic scenes jerks and freezes appear and I really don’t like it, it neutralizes all the smoothness. At least 20-25% is needed))
Thank you))

1,411 (edited by dawkinscm 05-04-2024 23:34:13)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

OK so I'm using the latest vsmlrt script because it supposedly properly detects the TRT version. When I did that I notice that I loose some performance with the 9.2 test versions. So I reset everything back to default including the default SVP TRT version (8.5.1) and got the performance back. So where I am now is similar to where I was before. Rife 4.15v2 lite should be the new SVP default version because it uses similar GPU to v4.9 but has better artefact handling. But Rife v4.15v2 is still the best version overall because it removes or reduces every artefact I've ever come across.

1,412 (edited by flowreen91 06-04-2024 00:55:08)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

pensioner600 wrote:

Can I ask you a few questions?

1. Both work, MPV slightly faster.
2. Both work. Use which one you have better results.
3. Search "resize" in settings and specify your exact resolution downscale value https://gyazo.com/755782ab2c201f627031aa450509fa10
    Try to add various shaders to regain visual quality.
    Probably not possible to apply the mpcVR downscaling shaders before SVP resize. Developers might know more.
4. 2 threads+, enabled. Use which one you have better results.
5. Ensemble = testing purposes, ignore it.
    V2 = faster than V1 because "v2 models handle paddings internally and reduce PCIe traffic flow", use with Performance boost enabled. Always use this.
    Lite = uses less resources, less precise, lower quality than non-Lite. It's ok cause allows 4K enjoyers to watch at 48 fps.
    Newer versions = usually smarter AI model so better smoothness
    https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopi … 301#p84301
6. Search "rife_sc" in settings https://gyazo.com/f4966e81c9c0453f82c5c3de86de0b88

1,413 (edited by flowreen91 06-04-2024 13:01:20)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

RickyAstle98 wrote:

5c. There is no point in 240 frames because RIFE will encounter the problem of the SVP algorithm, where excessive interpolation starts duplicating its own created frames (depends on the resolution)!

As long as the two source frame images are not identical, RIFE will try to make a smooth transition between them so it will generate all the intermediary frames. If you set Scene change threshold 100 it will not duplicate frames.
If you set a low Scene change threshold like 1-15 then it will compare the two images and it might come to the conclusion that the difference between the two source images is big enough that it will consider it a scene transition.
When it concludes that it is a scene transition it will stop generating intermediary frames and start duplicating/reusing the same source frame so instead of a smooth transition it will "teleport" to the new source frame instead.
So use a high Scene change threshold value (or 100) for 240 fps+ to address this problem.

dawkinscm wrote:

BTW Is the number being used in your attachment 2560x1440 resolution?

No, i just searched the resolution pensioner600 was asking for.
For 240 fps RIFE we must go much much lower than that.

dawkinscm wrote:

I found I had to turn SCT back for best overall smoothness.The default value of 10 works best although 12 works better for one particular instance. YMMV.

Interesting. Are you talking about this particular instance? https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopi … 121#p84121
Share the video if not.

1,414 (edited by dawkinscm 06-04-2024 13:03:51)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

flowreen91 wrote:

If you set a low Scene change threshold like 1-15 then it will compare the two images and it might come to the conclusion that the difference between the two source images is big enough that it will consider it a scene transition.

On a related note, while I have been using the features of later vsmlrt versions I also set my SCT to 100.  After reseting everything to default (but still using the latest vsmlrt), I found I had to turn SCT on for best overall smoothness.The default value of 10 works best although 12 works better for one particular instance. YMMV.


flowreen91 wrote:

1. Both work, MPV slightly faster.

I would say MPV is significantly faster when stressed.


flowreen91 wrote:

3. Search "resize" in settings and specify your exact resolution downscale value. Try to add various shaders to regain visual quality.

This is interesting. I've tried downscaling before but the quality is clearly worse than mpv's class leading scaling. I think there is an option to change the scaling from bicubic to something better but it's been a while. BTW Is the number being used in your attachment 2560x1440 resolution?


flowreen91 wrote:

4. 2 threads+, enabled. Use which one you have better results.

I leave 2 threads on by default but tbh with my card I see no real difference between 1 and 4 threads.


flowreen91 wrote:

5.  Lite = uses less resources,

Except v4.14 "lite" which depending on your card can actually use more GPU resources.

1,415 (edited by dawkinscm 06-04-2024 13:55:20)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

So this is a little weird. Before I got v4.15 Lite to be "almost" as good as v4.15/60fps by running the lite version at 72fps. But now, for the Alita battle drome scenes the Lite/72fps version actually handles artefacts a little better than base 4.15/60fps. I've made chages to my Nvidia Low latency settings which might make a processing speed difference. But I think maybe v4.15 has regressed a little with TRT 8.5 because I don't remember seeing these artefacts before but I have no actual evidence for this. I'm not prepared to do any new TRT testing until maybe 10.0.0.1 because even running at 72fps, the Lite version uses between 30 and 40% less GPU.

1,416 (edited by dawkinscm 06-04-2024 14:39:42)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

flowreen91 wrote:

Interesting. Are you talking about this particular instance? https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopi … 121#p84121
Share the video if not.

Sorry I didn't see this earlier. No I'm talking about the intro to the movie Hugo which is a little difficult for Rife unless you get the SCT right or turn it off completely. But after more testing I find I can use SCT at 12 for just about everything now.

It's interesting to see how many of the changes I have recently made have now been reverted since yesterday because of how well Rife v4.15 lite works. I'm back to using the default SVP install and TRT and back to using SCT set to 12. The only remaining change is vmslrt. With v4.15 lite/72fps the remaining stubbon artefacts I come across have definitely improved over any other version while still using only 60-70% GPU.

1,417

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Those who wants to continue in Russian please go there --> https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7273

1,418 (edited by RickyAstle98 06-04-2024 15:53:45)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Okay, Chainik, I understand you!

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

I tested it. 4.15 lite (V2) with SVP downscaling to 1440p, even 4K 10bit x4 works well. It is excellent! Great progress in technology while I was on dmitrirender)) I also confirm that 4.15 lite has fewer artifacts than just 4.15. I still stick with MPC-BE, since MPV is very confusing, even the ASIO driver is not clear how to attach it to it. Here are my settings, see who is experienced, maybe I missed something or made a mistake?

Post's attachments

Снимок экрана (932).jpg 391.82 kb, 13 downloads since 2024-04-06 

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

pensioner600 wrote:

I tested it. 4.15 lite (V2) with SVP downscaling to 1440p, even 4K 10bit x4 works well. It is excellent! Great progress in technology while I was on dmitrirender)) I also confirm that 4.15 lite has fewer artifacts than just 4.15. I still stick with MPC-BE, since MPV is very confusing, even the ASIO driver is not clear how to attach it to it. Here are my settings, see who is experienced, maybe I missed something or made a mistake?

What do you see, its feels smooth? big_smile

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

RickyAstle98 wrote:

What do you see, its feels smooth? big_smile

In terms of smoothness, of course, it does not reach dmitrirender 240fps, but there are significantly fewer artifacts and this makes the picture clearer, especially on small objects, and in general dynamic scenes look better, you can see more.

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

What is the downscale algorithm in SVP? Can it be changed or improved somehow? I just compared frame-by-frame screenshots. It loses greatly in the downscale of mpcVR, small details are lost. If it could be changed, then that would be ideal))

1,423 (edited by flowreen91 06-04-2024 19:52:20)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

pensioner600 wrote:

maybe I missed something

Please compare if there are any noticeable performance differences if you switch to software decoding here:
https://gyazo.com/d54298fdce3238ddb7502698bfba9ad3 (i am just curious)
Overall your settings are great. Good job!

1,424

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

> What is the downscale algorithm in SVP?

bicubic resize

> Can it be changed or improved somehow?

SVP 4\script\generate.js line 477 big_smile
available options: https://www.vapoursynth.com/doc/functio … esize.html

1,425 (edited by dawkinscm 07-04-2024 12:52:11)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

dawkinscm wrote:
flowreen91 wrote:

3. Search "resize" in settings and specify your exact resolution downscale value. Try to add various shaders to regain visual quality.

This is interesting. I've tried downscaling before but the quality is clearly worse than mpv's class leading scaling. I think there is an option to change the scaling from bicubic to something better but it's been a while.

Chainik wrote:

> What is the downscale algorithm in SVP?

bicubic resize

SVP 4\script\generate.js line 477 big_smile
available options: https://www.vapoursynth.com/doc/functio … esize.html

This is what I was talking about but I rarely ask direct questions on here nowadays because I rarely get an answer from devs unless it's to correct an assumption I made because the devs didn't answer a previous question. Round and round it goes.