1,201 Reply by Gippy (edited by Gippy 05-02-2024 00:58:35)

  • Thanks: 5
  • Thanks for the post: 2

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Was going to wait for the 50-series, but the RTX 4080 Super launch was too good to pass up on and got myself one.

Primary use is anime watching. Using the generic 4.4 filter for now. 1080p24 to 1080p60, resize to 4K via MadVR's NGU Sharp filter, then have my Sony A95K's Motionflow XR processing make it go from 60fps to 120fps.

At first the GPU was at 90% usage, and the video gradually desynced from the audio. I thought the 4080S couldn't handle it. But then I forced D3D11 rendering in MadVR, and also switched LAV video decode from DXVA2 Copyback to D3D11 Native. Now it runs great. I have no idea why SVP doesn't force these settings upon installation. If your video is lagging, double-check to see that you're not in DXVA2 Copyback mode, as that is a huge performance hit. Now my GPU is at 70-80% usage and doesn't desync. Great!

It's unfortunate that the price of admission with the MadVR renderer is a 4080S though, because I feel anything weaker wouldn't have been good enough.

1,202 Reply by MAG79

  • MAG79
  • SVP developer
  • Offline
  • Thanks: 1101
  • Thanks for the post: 2

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Gippy thanks for information.

In the past D3D11 Native value in LAV decoder was incompatible to SVP.
Need to check if it works correctly and SVP does its work fine (24 to 60 fps conversion).
---
I've checked. D3D11 works good with SVP.
In LAV decoder filter properties it indicates as Active Decoder: d3d11 cb direct

1,203 Reply by Gippy (edited by Gippy 05-02-2024 05:15:29)

  • Thanks: 5
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Cool. Glad I could help.

Consider making D3D11 Native the default playback mode in future versions of SVP, as it took me a while to troubleshoot this. The only problem is that D3D11 Native doesn't work in Windows 7, so the system requirement listing would need to change.

1,204 Reply by RickyAstle98 (edited by RickyAstle98 05-02-2024 11:26:47)

  • Thanks: 37

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

MAG79 wrote:

Gippy thanks for information.

In the past D3D11 Native value in LAV decoder was incompatible to SVP.
Need to check if it works correctly and SVP does its work fine (24 to 60 fps conversion).
---
I've checked. D3D11 works good with SVP.
In LAV decoder filter properties it indicates as Active Decoder: d3d11 cb direct

Does d3d11va-copy same thing D3D11 in mpv player? How to force D3D11 thru svp and mpv player, a bit confused, I want more performance! smile

1,205 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 05-02-2024 13:11:28)

  • Thanks: 117
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

RickyAstle98 wrote:
MAG79 wrote:

Gippy thanks for information.

In the past D3D11 Native value in LAV decoder was incompatible to SVP.
Need to check if it works correctly and SVP does its work fine (24 to 60 fps conversion).
---
I've checked. D3D11 works good with SVP.
In LAV decoder filter properties it indicates as Active Decoder: d3d11 cb direct

Does d3d11va-copy same thing D3D11 in mpv player? How to force D3D11 thru svp and mpv player, a bit confused, I want more performance! smile

For SVP, whichever decoder you use in mpv it needs to be a copy-back decoder where the frames are copied back to RAM, wtherwise SVP can't process them.  d3d11va-copy is one of the better Windows copy-back decoders. If you want to start using mpv then use the SVP installer to install it then use the default mpv.conf that comes with SVP. It's not perfect but it will 100% work.

1,206 Reply by Gippy

  • Thanks: 5
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

RickyAstle98 wrote:

Does d3d11va-copy same thing D3D11 in mpv player? How to force D3D11 thru svp and mpv player, a bit confused, I want more performance! smile

I use MPC-HC, but looks like you're on copyback mode. Any copyback mode sends the frame data to RAM, which allows for CPU processing. D3D11 Native keeps all of the frame data in VRAM, which is much faster, but all processing must be done by the GPU.

1,207 Reply by Xenocyde

  • Thanks: 17
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Is MPC-HC better for GPUs like RTX 4080? I'm on MPV but screen is 1080p so don't think it really matters right now. I'm thinking of getting a 4K screen soon, though, so maybe MPC-HC is better for 4K?

  • Thanks: 117
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Xenocyde wrote:

Is MPC-HC better for GPUs like RTX 4080? I'm on MPV but screen is 1080p so don't think it really matters right now. I'm thinking of getting a 4K screen soon, though, so maybe MPC-HC is better for 4K?

No. One of the reasons I switched from mpc to mpv is that it works better with SVP at any resolution.

1,209 Reply by Gippy (edited by Gippy 05-02-2024 16:51:31)

  • Thanks: 5
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Xenocyde wrote:

Is MPC-HC better for GPUs like RTX 4080? I'm on MPV but screen is 1080p so don't think it really matters right now. I'm thinking of getting a 4K screen soon, though, so maybe MPC-HC is better for 4K?

I deleted mpv after one day. Horrible GUI and doesn't work with the MadVR renderer. But others love it. For anime which is >90% of the content I consume, MadVR's 4K upscaling filters are fantastic. But it's very GPU intensive. With my old video card, a GTX 1660Ti, I had to make the CPU handle SVP's regular interpolation while the GPU handled MadVR. Putting both to GPU resulted in lag. With my 4080S, RIFE+MadVR works for 1080p24 content upscaled to 4K. No comment on native 4K or HDR content as almost no current anime is in native 4K or HDR.

VLC is the "for dummies" media player and doesn't have much customization. mpv goes too far extreme in the other direction and is for those who think FFmpeg command line is the greatest encoder. MPC-HC/BE is in the middle and that's good enough for me.

1,210 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 05-02-2024 19:13:14)

  • Thanks: 117
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Gippy wrote:

I deleted mpv after one day. Horrible GUI and doesn't work with the MadVR renderer.

What made you think that it should work with MadVR?  Running mpv is equivalent to running mpc-be+MadVR and with that flexibility there is a learning curve. Yes it is text based but you can also download gui's for it. There are also gui based players that use mpv as a display engine.

But SVP comes with baseline mpv.conf file so unlike mpc-be, it will just work with zero extra configuration.


Gippy wrote:

VLC is the "for dummies" media player and doesn't have much customization. mpv goes too far extreme in the other direction and is for those who think FFmpeg command line is the greatest encoder. MPC-HC/BE is in the middle and that's good enough for me.

mpc-be is a great media player and a nice middle ground, but mpv just works more efficiently with SVP.   mpv is open source and uses code from other oepn source projects including ffmpeg and even VLC "for dummies".

1,211 Reply by Chainik

  • Thanks: 1547
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

> VLC is the "for dummies" media player and doesn't have much customization

big_smile run "vlc.exe --help"

1,212 Reply by Xenocyde

  • Thanks: 17
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Alrighty, guess I'll stick to MPV, but I'll need to figure out downscaling cuz no current GPU can manage 4K@120 from what I read.

1,213 Reply by flowreen91 (edited by flowreen91 05-02-2024 23:48:17)

  • Thanks: 44
  • Thanks for the post: 2

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Xenocyde wrote:

Alrighty, guess I'll stick to MPV, but I'll need to figure out downscaling cuz no current GPU can manage 4K@120 from what I read.

Did you try the frc.frame.resize SVP application setting?

Questions for the guys that have more experience with upscaling:

Does increasing frc.frame.resize to 4K count as upscaling?
Does using madVR 4K upscaling filter as Gippy mentioned have a similar effect as Lossless Scaling's "Anime4K" filter?
Does using using madVR 4K / Anime4K filter on max settings give a less blurry image compared to Nvidia Image Scaling filter?
Which of them on max settings require less resources?
Which of them you would preffer and why?

I've played recently with the Lossless Scaling Steam application that can upscale everything and enjoyed a lot this Nvidia Image Scaling sharpness 10 filter:
https://gyazo.com/10533c577f69f9e7a2072856e8b5a54e
From my comparison i can't see differences between original image and Anime4K, but the Nvidia Image Scaling gives a much clear image:
Original: https://gyazo.com/f9aa57138e57d7fdb131b1f6581fdaea
Anime4K: https://gyazo.com/b4d4c18a104b3c6793996be377215e6c
Nvidia Image Scaling: https://gyazo.com/f7af1a0e05c8307d8966ec2c2082a97d
You can compare yourself by getting the Lossless Scaling app from Steam or piratebay or unzip it from here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … drive_link

Thanks!

  • Thanks: 37

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

dawkinscm wrote:
RickyAstle98 wrote:
MAG79 wrote:

Gippy thanks for information.

In the past D3D11 Native value in LAV decoder was incompatible to SVP.
Need to check if it works correctly and SVP does its work fine (24 to 60 fps conversion).
---
I've checked. D3D11 works good with SVP.
In LAV decoder filter properties it indicates as Active Decoder: d3d11 cb direct

Does d3d11va-copy same thing D3D11 in mpv player? How to force D3D11 thru svp and mpv player, a bit confused, I want more performance! smile

For SVP, whichever decoder you use in mpv it needs to be a copy-back decoder where the frames are copied back to RAM, wtherwise SVP can't process them.  d3d11va-copy is one of the better Windows copy-back decoders. If you want to start using mpv then use the SVP installer to install it then use the default mpv.conf that comes with SVP. It's not perfect but it will 100% work.

Im already use mpv player since SVP4 Pro buy, I custom mpv for my preferences, so I cant get extra performance at all? I test d3d11va and RTX 4070 dies at 720@24>144 realtime playback, but d3d11va-copy didnt smile

1,215 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 06-02-2024 14:26:53)

  • Thanks: 117
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

RickyAstle98 wrote:

Im already use mpv player since SVP4 Pro buy, I custom mpv for my preferences, so I cant get extra performance at all? I test d3d11va and RTX 4070 dies at 720@24>144 realtime playback, but d3d11va-copy didnt smile

The reason you get better performance with d3d11va over d3d11va-copy is because with d3d11va SVP can't properly process the frames. d3d11va-copy copies frams to system ram where SVP has full access to them. So unless SVP has changed and somehow has direct access to GPU memory, you need to use copy. But you probably already know this and you were just joking.

  • Thanks: 37

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

dawkinscm wrote:
RickyAstle98 wrote:

Im already use mpv player since SVP4 Pro buy, I custom mpv for my preferences, so I cant get extra performance at all? I test d3d11va and RTX 4070 dies at 720@24>144 realtime playback, but d3d11va-copy didnt smile

The reason you get better performance with d3d11va over d3d11va-copy is because with d3d11va SVP can't properly process the frames. d3d11va-copy copies frams to system ram where SVP has full access to them. So unless SVP has changed and somehow has direct access to GPU memory, you need to use copy. But you probably already know this and you were just joking.

I think there is some performance bonus for me, but unfortunately no, but yes d3d11va-copy better smile

1,217 Reply by Drakko01

  • Thanks: 15
  • Thanks for the post: 2

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Hey! I encourage everyone to try the new driver hotfix of nvidia 551.46. They address various sttutering and micro-stuttering and it seems to me that this benefited svp. Let me know what you think.

1,218 Reply by RickyAstle98 (edited by RickyAstle98 09-02-2024 06:54:07)

  • Thanks: 37

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Drakko01 wrote:

Hey! I encourage everyone to try the new driver hotfix of nvidia 551.46. They address various sttutering and micro-stuttering and it seems to me that this benefited svp. Let me know what you think.

This driver havent do anything for me, also this driver non-WHQL based, so therefore, as NVIDIA themselves stated, this driver is advised only to those who had real problems, no benefit at all, tested 1 full day, very tough tests, hard tasks!

1,219 Reply by Blackfyre (edited by Blackfyre 10-02-2024 04:45:53)

  • Thanks: 108
  • Thanks for the post: 2

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Any MPV Configuration specialist that's better than me feel free to chime in here please.

I've been scratching my head trying to get VRR to work RIFE + MPV + SVP on my C2, this is the best I have achieved so far:

With Vulkan, VRR Working BUT black levels are slightly crushed + colour banding in certain bright highlights:

ontop
fullscreen=yes

volume=100
volume-max=100

vo=gpu-next
hwdec=vulkan

video-sync=audio
fbo-format=rgba16hf
spirv-compiler=auto
drm-vrr-enabled=yes
vulkan-swap-mode=fifo

target-trc=pq
target-peak=800
target-prim=bt.2020

dolbyvision=no
vf=format:dolbyvision=no

tone-mapping=spline
tone-mapping-mode=luma
tone-mapping-param=bt.2390
tone-mapping-max-boost=2.0
gamut-mapping-mode=perceptual

target-contrast=inf
hdr-compute-peak=yes
target-colorspace-hint=yes

D3D11 - No banding, perfect black levels, BUT VRR does not work:

ontop
fullscreen=yes
d3d11-exclusive-fs=yes

volume=100
volume-max=100

vo=gpu-next
gpu-api=d3d11
hwdec=d3d11va
gpu-context=d3d11

video-sync=audio
fbo-format=rgba16hf
spirv-compiler=auto
drm-vrr-enabled=yes
d3d11-sync-interval=1
hr-seek-framedrop=no

target-peak=800
target-trc=pq
target-prim=bt.2020

vf=format:dolbyvision=no
dolbyvision=no

tone-mapping=spline
tone-mapping-mode=luma
gamut-mapping-mode=perceptual
tone-mapping-param=bt.2390
tone-mapping-max-boost=2.0

target-contrast=inf
hdr-compute-peak=yes
target-colorspace-hint=yes

Is there anything that can be done to the bottom code that would allow me to use VRR with D3D11?

Or to the Vulkan code at the top to fix crushed black levels?

I have tried everything but cannot find a solution.

1,220 Reply by RickyAstle98 (edited by RickyAstle98 09-02-2024 12:28:37)

  • Thanks: 37

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Blackfyre wrote:

Any MPV Configuration specialist that's better than me feel free to chime in here please.

I've been scratching my head trying to get VRR to work RIFE + MPV + SVP on my C2, this is the best I have achieved so far:

With Vulkan, VRR Working BUT black levels are slightly crushed + colour banding in certain bright highlights:

ontop
fullscreen=yes

volume=100
volume-max=100

vo=gpu-next
hwdec=vulkan

video-sync=audio
fbo-format=rgba16hf
spirv-compiler=auto
drm-vrr-enabled=yes
vulkan-swap-mode=fifo

target-trc=pq
target-peak=800
target-prim=bt.2020

dolbyvision=no
vf=format:dolbyvision=no

tone-mapping=spline
tone-mapping-mode=luma
tone-mapping-param=bt.2390
tone-mapping-max-boost=2.0
gamut-mapping-mode=perceptual

target-contrast=inf
hdr-compute-peak=yes
target-colorspace-hint=yes

D3D11 - Perfect colours, no banding, perfect black levels, BUT VRR does not work:

ontop
fullscreen=yes
d3d11-exclusive-fs=yes

volume=100
volume-max=100

vo=gpu-next
gpu-api=d3d11
hwdec=d3d11va
gpu-context=d3d11

video-sync=audio
fbo-format=rgba16hf
spirv-compiler=auto
drm-vrr-enabled=yes
d3d11-sync-interval=1
hr-seek-framedrop=no

target-peak=800
target-trc=pq
target-prim=bt.2020

vf=format:dolbyvision=no
dolbyvision=no

tone-mapping=spline
tone-mapping-mode=luma
gamut-mapping-mode=perceptual
tone-mapping-param=bt.2390
tone-mapping-max-boost=2.0

target-contrast=inf
hdr-compute-peak=yes
target-colorspace-hint=yes

Is there anything that can be done to the bottom code that would allow me to use VRR with D3D11?

Or to the Vulkan code at the top to fix crushed black levels?

I have tried everything but cannot find a solution.

hwdec=d3d11va *prevents VRR
drm-vrr-enabled=yes *prevents VRR or zero effect
d3d11-sync-interval=1 *prevents VRR or zero effect
Only these parameters prevents VRR tech, tested 4 times!

  • Thanks: 108
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

RickyAstle98 wrote:

hwdec=d3d11va *prevents VRR
drm-vrr-enabled=yes *prevents VRR or zero effect
d3d11-sync-interval=1 *prevents VRR or zero effect
Only these parameters prevents VRR tech, tested 4 times!

removed all 3, VRR works, but same problem as vulkan now so black levels are crushed & banding.

removed drm-vrr-enabled=yes and d3d11-sync-interval=1 as they're useless it seems.

Testing only with:

hwdec=d3d11va *Prevents VRR but black levels are good, and no banding.

Changed to d3d11va-copy *VRR works but same problem as above crushed blacks & banding

nvdec, cuda, etc all same thing, do not work properly.

hwdec=d3d11va provides the best black levels and no banding, but breaks VRR.

1,222 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 09-02-2024 13:47:55)

  • Thanks: 117
  • Thanks for the post: 1

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Blackfyre wrote:

Testing only with:

hwdec=d3d11va *Prevents VRR but black levels are good, and no banding.

Changed to d3d11va-copy *VRR works but same problem as above crushed blacks & banding

nvdec, cuda, etc all same thing, do not work properly.

hwdec=d3d11va provides the best black levels and no banding, but breaks VRR.

It's weird that people are using d3d11va when the base mpv.conf uses d3d11va-copy. If you are using d3d11va then SVP doesn't work properly because it doesn't have full access to all frames. Also hwdec has very little to do with colours which is why you see no differences. But it might have some impact on banding depending on what card you are using.

  • Thanks: 37

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Blackfyre wrote:
RickyAstle98 wrote:

hwdec=d3d11va *prevents VRR
drm-vrr-enabled=yes *prevents VRR or zero effect
d3d11-sync-interval=1 *prevents VRR or zero effect
Only these parameters prevents VRR tech, tested 4 times!

removed all 3, VRR works, but same problem as vulkan now so black levels are crushed & banding.

removed drm-vrr-enabled=yes and d3d11-sync-interval=1 as they're useless it seems.

Testing only with:

hwdec=d3d11va *Prevents VRR but black levels are good, and no banding.

Changed to d3d11va-copy *VRR works but same problem as above crushed blacks & banding

nvdec, cuda, etc all same thing, do not work properly.

hwdec=d3d11va provides the best black levels and no banding, but breaks VRR.

Anyway if you have GSync monitor with physical module, this issue isnt happen, because renderer now doesnt request backup memory through VRR option!

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

dawkinscm wrote:

If you are using d3d11va then SVP doesn't work properly because it doesn't have full access to all frames.

Never had such an issue with RIFE + SVP + MPV

dawkinscm wrote:

Also hwdec has very little to do with colours which is why you see no differences. But it might have some impact on banding depending on what card you are using.

Pictures look exaggerated, captured with ExpertRAW on my phone. But you can understand what I mean by banding, and the blacks are not perfect blacks, they become very very dark grey, but not perfect black levels.

hwdec=d3d11va

https://i.imgur.com/5PmmjAB.jpeg

hwdec=d3d11va-copy

https://i.imgur.com/TwPlkb7.jpeg

As to this:

RickyAstle98 wrote:

Anyway if you have GSync monitor with physical module, this issue isnt happen, because renderer now doesnt request backup memory through VRR option!

It's an LG C2 42" which I use as a desktop monitor. It has both GSync and Freesync Premium.

Either way, I am still looking for a solution. Maybe someone else can chime in if they know of a workaround or different rendering method perhaps.

1,225 Reply by dawkinscm (edited by dawkinscm 09-02-2024 22:26:48)

Re: New RIFE filter - 3x faster AI interpolation possible in SVP!!!

Blackfyre wrote:
dawkinscm wrote:

If you are using d3d11va then SVP doesn't work properly because it doesn't have full access to all frames.

Never had such an issue with RIFE + SVP + MPV

Unless a dev comes on and tells me that the way SVP has always works has now changed, then whether you recognise it or not, using d3d11va and not d3d11va-copy means that SVP is not working properly.


Blackfyre wrote:
dawkinscm wrote:

Also hwdec has very little to do with colours which is why you see no differences. But it might have some impact on banding depending on what card you are using.

Pictures look exaggerated, captured with ExpertRAW on my phone. But you can understand what I mean by banding, and the blacks are not perfect blacks, they become very very dark grey, but not perfect black levels.

You're kind of mixing up colour with banding but I get what you mean. I did say that hwdec can affect banding depending on the card and parameters used. What happens if you set hwdec=no? If you still have the same banding then the issue is definitely not the card or hwdec but is probably your display and its setup. If the banding disappears then you need to check your card settings.