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Topic: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

No matter what settings I use, the video is really choppy when it comes to 120 and 144 fps on SVP 4 Pro. It's most noticable in scenes with panning.
I can't even do 120 with everything on the lowest settings (I've tried low, medium and high, and everything skips regardless).
I doubt it's a performance issue - because with SVP 3.1.7 I can easily do 144/120fps with most settings on maximum, and because none of the settings make any difference at all on SVP 4.
There's no problem with 90 or 60fps, they're both smooth and there's no skipping, so it's weird to me that it happens with 120/144.
Unlike this guy http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2893 it looks like my screen rate is detected fine. I use a 144hz monitor and MPC-BE detects it to be 143.995 Hz and SVP 4 detects 143.973 Hz.
With ctrl+j showing info - there's no frame drops and no presentation glitches when these skips/chops happen.
I'm running 8-bit video, so it's not a trouble with 10-bit either.

Any ideas?

Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

try to play with number of processing threads value (under "additional options")

what CPU do you have?

3 Reply by Renai (edited by Renai 10-11-2015 11:10:40)

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

Chainik wrote:

try to play with number of processing threads value (under "additional options")

what CPU do you have?

I'm using an i7 4790k. I tried every single option for the thread value: auto, 3, 5, 7, 9, etc up to 23, and they all skipped on 144 fps ("to screen").
I've also made sure my GPU is checked on GPU acceleration.

My CPU sits at around 30-40% usage on 90 fps and it sits around the same on 120 and 144 fps on the video I'm testing it on.

I tested some more on a higher bitrate video, and the skipping got even worse than before, even on 90 and 60 fps. CPU usage was around 30-40%.
I tested the same video with SVP 3.1.7, it skipped sometimes, but when I diasbled artifacts masking there was absolutely no skipping. Unfortunately disabling artifacts masking didn't make a difference for SVP 4.

Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

You wouldn't happen to be using an Nvidia GPU on Windows 10, would you?

Regardless, try enabling either "D3D Fullscreen" or "use Direct3D 11 for presentation".

5 Reply by Renai (edited by Renai 12-11-2015 23:53:53)

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

You wouldn't happen to be using an Nvidia GPU on Windows 10, would you?

Regardless, try enabling either "D3D Fullscreen" or "use Direct3D 11 for presentation".

Yeah, I'm using an Nvidia GPU on Windows 10.
I couldn't find the "D3D Fullscreen" on the nvidia control panel, but I found "use Direct3D 11 for presentation"in madVR. But it didn't make a difference.
I also tried installing the CUDA drivers after seeing it mentioned in the forums. But again, no fix.

After some more tampering with settings, I did however find some settings that kept it from skipping. If artifacts masking is "disabled", motion vectors precision is on "Two pixels", motion vectors grid on "16 px. Average 0", search radius on "Small and fast" and wide search "disabled" there are very few skips compared to before. Also with these settings my CPU sits on 17-30% usage. Any other settings, and the skipping starts happening again.

I can set these much higher on v3.1.7 without any skipping at all. And if I set it as high as possible and if it then skips, these skips show up as dropped frames/presentation glitches on MPC-BE, which doesn't happen when I'm using v4.

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

It looks like you are using different settings in SVP3 and SVP4.
Look at avs script in SVP3.  How many threads there? For your i7-4790k it must be 15 or more.
Point that value in SVP4.

7 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 13-11-2015 03:29:19)

Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

MAG79 wrote:

It looks like you are using different settings in SVP3 and SVP4.
Look at avs script in SVP3.  How many threads there? For your i7-4790k it must be 15 or more.
Point that value in SVP4.


I can attest to this.  Having 'Processing threads' set to "Auto" on my 4.6GHz Pentium G3258 gives considerably worse performance than manually setting the amount of threads to 7.

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:
MAG79 wrote:

It looks like you are using different settings in SVP3 and SVP4.
Look at avs script in SVP3.  How many threads there? For your i7-4790k it must be 15 or more.
Point that value in SVP4.


I can attest to this.  Having 'Processing threads' set to "Auto" on my 4.6GHz Pentium G3258 gives considerably worse performance than manually setting the amount of threads to 7.

Is there a guide for proper thread counts for processors (and, if so, why doesn't the "Auto" setting for "Processing Threads" use it? lol)?

9 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 13-11-2015 07:28:54)

Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

VB_SVP wrote:

Is there a guide for proper thread counts for processors (and, if so, why doesn't the "Auto" setting for "Processing Threads" use it? lol)?

Not really.  Basically 7 and higher should be fine for most CPUs, though with 8-thread CPUs you might want to double that (hence 15).

Thought to be blunt, if the "Auto" setting worked optimally then we wouldn't even need to manually set the thread amount. tongue

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:
VB_SVP wrote:

Is there a guide for proper thread counts for processors (and, if so, why doesn't the "Auto" setting for "Processing Threads" use it? lol)?

Not really.  Basically 7 and higher should be fine for most CPUs, though with 8-thread CPUs you might want to double that (hence 15).

Thought to be blunt, if the "Auto" setting worked optimally then we wouldn't even need to manually set the thread amount. tongue

How many does Auto give?  SVP wiki says that it's core count * 1.8, which should give me 14.4, which I presume rounds up to 15?

11 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 13-11-2015 17:44:49)

Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

VB_SVP wrote:

SVP wiki says that it's core count * 1.8

Ohhh, that would explain my performance issue.  I guess a Pentium G3258 @ 4.6GHz is more performance than SVP expects from a dual-core system, so only using 3-4 threads leaves quite a bit of performance on the table, particularly with high refresh rates (90+ Hz)


Maybe a better equation would be the following:

Display refresh rate / 60 * core count * 2, then round up

For me that would give a sum of either 5.26666... or 6, both of which would round up to 7...which is what I've been using.

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

Nintendo Maniac 64

current formula is much more advanced than *1.8 big_smile

threads = cores*1.8;
threads = min(th * max(frc_rate/2.5, 1.0)), 25);
return max(threads, cores<2 ? 3:5);

= cores*1.8*K, but not less than 3 (for 1-core CPU) or 5, but not greater than 25,
where K depends on "FRC rate" => =1 for *5/2, =2 for *5, and so on

13 Reply by Renai (edited by Renai 13-11-2015 20:32:19)

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

MAG79 wrote:

It looks like you are using different settings in SVP3 and SVP4.
Look at avs script in SVP3.  How many threads there? For your i7-4790k it must be 15 or more.
Point that value in SVP4.

The AVS script from SVP3 told me I use 15 threads. I had already tried all the different thread options though, but none of them had previously made any difference.
I also tried to use the same settings in SVP4 as I use in SVP3, but I had to lower them quite substantially for it to work without skipping in SVP4, while they worked perfectly smooth in SVP3.  // I made an error about the thread settings


I updated my SVP to 4.0.0.48 today, and suddenly everything was smooth as butter, even with high settings on 144 fps, and I hadn't changed any settings.
So in hindsight I think I tested the different thread settings wrong. I didn't close the player between each time I changed the thread settings. Which means it was still set on auto while I thought I had tested out all the different threads one by one.
I noticed it because I changed the settings from auto (which as of 4.0.0.48 was smooth) to 3 threads, everything was still smooth, but then I closed the player. Then the skipping started happening again, even worse this time, and I got tonnes of dropped frames (which didn't happen before, even when it skipped). Then I changed settings to 15 threads and restarted the player, and it was smooth as butter even with high settings on 144fps.
So I guess the auto threads didn't function properly before, and I failed to test the thread settings properly, and with the new update it now functions properly?
I still think it's a bit weird there was no message about these dropped frames before, if the problem was that the auto threads didn't choose the correct amount.
Thanks for all the answers and suggestions!

14 Reply by Renai (edited by Renai 13-11-2015 20:42:52)

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

Another thing I want to mention while this thread is still alive.
You probably have many other things to do, but it's just a small suggestion for something to add some day (if it is possible).

Have you guys thought about adding different frame rates for demonstration mode?
So, not only have source + your current framerate, but maybe 60 fps + current framerate, 120fps + 144fps, 90 + 144.
Or maybe even three different options; source + 60 fps + 120 fps.
I'd wager these would get your CPU and GPU cooking, but it'd be a nice feature to compare differences in framerates.

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

Renai wrote:

60 fps + current framerate, 120fps + 144fps, 90 + 144
source + 60 fps + 120 fps

I don't understand.
Please, explaine what you mean?

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

MAG79
He meant it's like "demo mode" in SVP 3 but with target-able frame rate for each panel, and with 2-3 panel picture.
If the "demo mode" in SVP 3 it's the difference between SVP on and off, and that's only two panel.

CMIIW.

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

I can not get any framerate above 60FPS to work on my 120Hz monitor.  I get severe stutter, slow motion and even the audio cuts in and out, even when trying 75FPS.
I have been trying fixes that worked for others, using vrm9, evr(custom presenter) using D3D fullscreen and alternate V-sync, avoiding MADVR (known resource hog) and toying with the max threads (although how setting thread level 9 and higher would work on an 8 core i7 is beyond me)

I am using a 120Hz ASUS VG278, with a 4.0Ghz i7-4790k, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance Pro 2400 DDR3 RAM and 4Gb Gigabyte GTX970 G1 Gaming.

No setting I try allows framerate to go higher than 60 without severe stutter overall slow motion and audio cut out.

18 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 06-01-2016 03:05:37)

Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

hoover1979 wrote:

I can not get any framerate above 60FPS to work on my 120Hz monitor.

Do you mean the source video is 60fps and you're trying to interpolate it by 2x to 120fps, but SVP won't do so?

If so, see this thread:
http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3063

19 Reply by hoover1979 (edited by hoover1979 06-01-2016 06:12:24)

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:
hoover1979 wrote:

I can not get any framerate above 60FPS to work on my 120Hz monitor.

Do you mean the source video is 60fps and you're trying to interpolate it by 2x to 120fps, but SVP won't do so?

If so, see this thread:
http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3063

It doesn't matter if the source is 24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS or 60FPS.  I just get Slow Motion + Stutter + Audio cutting in and out on any output setting above 60FPS (Output 75, 90, 120).
No matter what I try this is always the case.

EDIT: Now it seems I am being forced to use MadVR renderer as all of a sudden VMR9 and EVR (Custom Presenter) have big issues.  Within 5 seconds of SVP 4 Pro kicking in I get flickering frames that keep flickering for all eternity, and I can't seem to fix THAT either.

Problem is MadVR hogs my resources so much I would be lucky if a 24FPS video runs at 30Fps.  (MadVR is configured to run fastest too, any other settings and performance drops further)

20 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 06-01-2016 08:01:02)

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

So even if you do any or all the following, your issues still persist?

1. Manually set SVP's thread amount to 9, 13, 19, and/or 23

2. Have LAVfilters hardware decoder set to "None"

3. Disable SVP4's GPU acceleration

21 Reply by hoover1979 (edited by hoover1979 06-01-2016 20:59:09)

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

So even if you do any or all the following, your issues still persist?

1. Manually set SVP's thread amount to 9, 13, 19, and/or 23

2. Have LAVfilters hardware decoder set to "None"

3. Disable SVP4's GPU acceleration

Manually setting thread amount above 7 seems to be a big fat no for my pc, maybe because it's 1 tread per core and I only have 8 cores?

I am getting an improvement with DXVX (copy-back) but although much smoother it is not fluid and panning seems to hang for split seconds every 1-2 seconds. (above output=60fps)

Disabling GPU acceleration made things worse then ever and seemed to make the movies run at less than their source framerate with audio issues galore. (Even at output=60fps or 2x source framerate)

Avoiding MadVR is a good one as it eats up to much or my PC's resources and EVR (Custom presenter) is best for me.

I sent you thanks for your help as I would not have thought to use DXVA (Copy-back) when I unchecked DXVA in the install options on latest install of SVP 4 Pro. (I was switching between None and CUVID before)

22 Reply by Nintendo Maniac 64 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 06-01-2016 23:12:59)

Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

hoover1979 wrote:

Manually setting thread amount above 7 seems to be a big fat no for my pc, maybe because it's 1 tread per core and I only have 8 cores?

O_o  That's not right at all since I myself have used up to 15 threads when doing some testing...and I only have a 2core/2thread Pentium G3258!


hoover1979 wrote:

I am getting an improvement with DXVX (copy-back) but although much smoother it is not fluid and panning seems to hang for split seconds every 1-2 seconds. (above output=60fps)

If you have Intel GPU drivers installed you can also try "Intel QuickSync" which is capable of higher framerates but can take more CPU utilization.


Now just to clarify, this issue does not occur when SVP is closed, correct?

23 Reply by hoover1979 (edited by hoover1979 06-01-2016 23:54:32)

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:
hoover1979 wrote:

Manually setting thread amount above 7 seems to be a big fat no for my pc, maybe because it's 1 tread per core and I only have 8 cores?

O_o  That's not right at all since I myself have used up to 15 threads when doing some testing...and I only have a 2core/2thread Pentium G3258!


hoover1979 wrote:

I am getting an improvement with DXVX (copy-back) but although much smoother it is not fluid and panning seems to hang for split seconds every 1-2 seconds. (above output=60fps)

If you have Intel GPU drivers installed you can also try "Intel QuickSync" which is capable of higher framerates but can take more CPU utilization.


Now just to clarify, this issue does not occur when SVP is closed, correct?

with SVP closed it is as normal 24fps (or 24, 29, 30fps depending on the video)

How do I use intel drivers without disabling my GTX970 drivers, I need those for gaming.  Isn't it either one or the other? (Some quick googling tells me I need multiple monitors to use intel graphics and GTX970 together.  I only have one monitor).

Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

hoover1979 wrote:

How do I use intel drivers without disabling my GTX970 drivers, I need those for gaming.  Isn't it either one or the other? (Some quick googling tells me I need multiple monitors to use intel graphics and GTX970 together.  I only have one monitor).

No, otherwise this image from one of the SVP devs wouldn't be possible:

MAG79 @ svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=55950#p55950 wrote:

http://www.svp-team.com/forum/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&amp;item=3935&amp;download=0

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Re: Choppy video on 120/144 fps - SVP 4 Pro

The picture above is for SVP 3.1.7