Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

mashingan

"For the great justice!" (c)

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

If one has been following the campaign from the start (before update 2), it's pretty obvious that's only for Windows, although it's not explicit  smile

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

mashingan wrote:

Uh, I don't understand why would the Windows subscriber want the Mac version or vice versa?

I'm thinking very long-term here.  It's very possible that Windows may not actually be around by 2050 but Linux would (especially considering how much Linux is used everywhere else outside of PCs and Apple products).

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Seriously, we can't expect anyone to dedicate years of their lives for a few bucks, or even for a total of $20k donations.

They're doing a great job and are donating their time, expertise and energy.

If you want to contribute finally, great. If not, great.

But nobody can tie down their feet for the next 20 years when they wouldn't get anything in return. Especially not for just a few thousand bucks.

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Mystery, you make it sound like I expect them to develop SVP for the next 35 years, which I don't.

My point was that, if sometime in the future that that Windows goes the way of Blackberry and Nokia to the point that SVP is no longer developed for Windows but is still developed for other platforms, then the "forever free" isn't really as forever as the description makes it out to be.

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

I guess this is just misunderstanding of wording then.

Somehow I understand why sometimes lawyer, when writing/saying something has very roundabout wording about simple thing big_smile

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

The software they have right now, as well as its updates, will be forever free.

If they need to rewrite the whole thing, then it's up to them how they're going to do it.

For me there's no confusion there.

This campaign is mostly for rewriting the manager, not the core itself.

33 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 30-07-2015 01:43:36)

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Question - if a new donor were to choose the $15 Mac perk, would they also get the Windows version of SVP?

Mystery wrote:

This campaign is mostly for rewriting the manager, not the core itself.

...I don't see how that makes a difference.  If the manager is good, then any future versions may very well just be updates and iterations of it rather than completely separate rewrites.

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

SVP is written for AviSynth. Doing anything for VLC or Mac means rewriting the whole thing from scratch. I wouldn't expect anyone to do that for free; but they can dive into this project if they feel inclined to.

35 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 30-07-2015 01:53:11)

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Mystery wrote:

SVP is written for AviSynth. Doing anything for VLC or Mac means rewriting the whole thing from scratch.

Uhhh, isn't said rewriting what SVP4 is all about and was the entire reason we had this fundraiser in the first place?

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Reading the updates, I can see how some people can feel frustration that they're donating money for the continuation of the development of a free software (over $17k total), and that as a result of the success of the campaign, some components would transition into being paid... "Windows Full" and "MacOS"

37 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 30-07-2015 01:59:44)

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

I am not complaining at all about paying for the continued development of something that was originally free.  Rewriting software takes time and energy, I understand that completely.

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:
Mystery wrote:

SVP is written for AviSynth. Doing anything for VLC or Mac means rewriting the whole thing from scratch.

Uhhh, isn't said rewriting what SVP4 is all about and was the entire reason we had this fundraiser in the first place?

Originally it was about the manager.

Rewriting the engine itself only came into the discussion later on when exploring Linux and MacOS options.

Unfortunately, at some point it became very clear that we can't move forward anymore without dropping existing SVP Manager UI.

It was started many years ago by two non-professional developers using an ancient Delphi 7 and now it is just a huge bunch of obsolete code no one can dig into.

So we really need to rewrite it from scratch using modern software tools and development patterns, which will take several months for a professional developer and a lot of testing.

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Mystery wrote:

Rewriting the engine itself only came into the discussion later on when exploring Linux and MacOS options.

But like you said, supporting VLC would require said rewrite, and VLC has been mentioned on the Indiegogo page since the beginning.

40 (edited by mashingan 30-07-2015 02:45:40)

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Uh, SVPflow is not SVP Manager.

The rewrite is only for the Manager, not SVPflow itself. SVPflow is Avisynth plugin. Avisynth is frameserver and only for Windows.

If the devs to write the SVPflow in Linux and Mac, it's same as write new frameserver so it can support the SVPflow as the plugin, and then after that they can write the Manager.
See the steps?

If anyone can think it's really easy to write a frameserver from scratch, uh, go ahead, please by any means do it big_smile
(oh, there is Avxsynth, the Linux port of Avisynth big_smile )

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Some people asking why there should be additional fee for MacOS version. Is it fair?  big_smile

Right now we have ~900 $10-contributors.
10 of which complains about "cheating"

(one of them is Nintendo Maniac 64, who doesn't have Mac big_smile)
, 9 just paid another $5 and 7 paid $15.
Let's assume that half of $26-and $100-contributors also have Macs.

This gives us 10-1+9+7 + 169/2= 110 Mac OS users vs. 967 non-Mac OS users.

SVP 4 for Windows is a rewritten Manager.
SVP 4 for Mac is a rewritten core libraries plus some OS-dependent part of the new Manager plus a lot of headache (beginning from I don't have Mac).

42 (edited by dlr5668 30-07-2015 12:48:58)

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Looks like it's time to add a stretch goal.
Main developer need mac. So if we'll reach $19999 Chainik will finally be able to test new release in native enviroment  smile

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

dlr5668 wrote:

Looks like it's time to add a stretch goal.
Main developer need mac. So if we'll reach $19999 Chainik will finally be able to test new release in native enviroment  smile

hahaha

If I was in Chainik's shoes, I'd keep developing the Windows version as a free software. But if some people really want a Mac version, someone better pay to dive into that work; I wouldn't do that for free. It's kind of the same with the Natural Grounding Player I released. It works for Windows. It "could" somewhat easily be ported to Linux & Mac, but for me it's definitely not a priority. Either someone else takes the lead to do it, or I better get paid enough for that work.

But what about the Windows Full version?

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Mystery
But what about the Windows Full version?

what about it?

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

I do at least appreciate the Linux version being free (currently).  I mean, closed source but free can at times be controversial in itself (read: Nvidia drivers) but closed source and costing money?  Blasphemy!

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Nintendo Maniac 64
closed source and costing money?  Blasphemy!

SolidWorks, AutoCad, AutoDeskInventor, etc are blasphemies too? hmm

I don't understand why closed source is controversial. It's not like the users that write the codes.
Even if the source is opened to public. Mostly users aren't coders, so will it be useful?
In industry, it's more logical to pay for software that you only use it, when there's something critical happened, you can always sue the developers (With reason of business disruption etc big_smile )

Oh, btw, spvflow is GPL, feel FREE to make use of it fully smile

47 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 31-07-2015 02:27:16)

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

mashingan wrote:

SolidWorks, AutoCad, AutoDeskInventor, etc are blasphemies too? hmm

Sorry, I was being half sarcastic - I thought my use of "Blasphemy!" would have made that apparent.  I mean, I am primarily a Windows user currently.

...but I would like to point out that none of those 3 pieces of software have native Linux versions.

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

It's quite simple really. SVP was made as a hobby by amateur programmers. They're making the transition into rebuilding it professionally. This means increased costs, more time involved, and much more active development.

If you prefer to keep the hobby software, it will still remain available.

Chainik wouldn't leave his well-paid job to give months of his time for free, but if it can become a sustainable source of income, then that means we'll see much more active development.

49 (edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 31-07-2015 18:59:59)

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Mystery wrote:

It's quite simple really. SVP was made as a hobby by amateur programmers. They're making the transition into rebuilding it professionally. This means increased costs, more time involved, and much more active development.

If you prefer to keep the hobby software, it will still remain available.

I'd like to mention that quite a few people commonly find hobby software to be better than commercial software save for the multi-hundred dollar professional-level stuff.

Re: The $10 "Free Forever" tier needs $15 donation for Mac?

Nintendo Maniac 64
FYI, mine personal job is making software for civil surveillance radars wink
And yes, SVP is just a hobby. But I really hope that sometime I could name "SVP Team" as my employer.