Topic: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

Hello guys,

I would like to ask the following:

1. Does variable frame rate repair have any side-effects (e.g. negatively affect non-variable frame rate source) and does it conflict with "Blend frames to screen refresh rate" or madVR's "smooth motion" in any way?

2. Does SVP respect madVR's smooth motion when enabled or should I also use "Blend frames to screen refresh rate" in conjunction with it?

I would appreciate it if someone could clarify these matters for me.

Thanks in advance!

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

Fabulist
Why you ask about variable frame rate? Are you watching anime?
I recommend do not use madVR's smooth motion and SVP's blend frames options if you really want to get smooth motion effect with SVP.

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

Yes, I am watching anime, videos, movies (both blu-ray or converted from blu-ray .mkvs or copied .m2ts), documentaries, you name it - so I would like to know if it would be a problem to leave "variable frame rate repair" constantly on and if it has any negative (quality wise) impact.

As for madVR's smooth motion, I am inclined to use it along with SVP's low-artifact-settings (my kind of preferred settings) and my plasma's smooth motion in order to achieve perfect image with zero artifacts. If I only use SVP or SVP and my plasma's smooth motion with these settings, I do not get as fluent playback. My alternative would be to increase SVP's smoothness options, which increase artifacts.

But my question on that matter is whether I should use both or either (assuming I have to use one).

Thanks for replying.

4 (edited by Fanty1972 15-02-2014 20:59:42)

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

Is there any difference for you, if you use only madVR Smooth motion without SVP active?
What exactly do you mean with "Low Artefact Settings"? Do you use SVP at "M2" (wich is almost (Actually only 1 out of 5 frames are interpolated ones) identical to switch off SVP) or something?

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

Yes, there is a difference to certain scenes. To others, there is none.

Low artifact settings are my own preferred settings, as I previously said, which work best with my plasma's smooth motion and with or without madVR's smooth motion. They consist of:

1.2m

13.

To screen

16 px.

Disabled

Small

Half

Strongest

Disabled

Blend

Disabled

And some other minor adjustments here and there (like in hidden settings).

I fail to see how this is relevant to my question, however.

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

Fabulist
whether I should use both or either (assuming I have to use one)

use madVR's one only

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

Thank you for clarifying that.

And what about the variable framerate fix, will it cause any side-effects leaving it constantly on?

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

Fabulist
will it cause any side-effects leaving it constantly on?
No. You can leave it enable forever.
If "variable framerate repair" enabled then it use farmedoubling or source framerate on VFR parts. It depends on current framerate and screen refreshrate.
If "variable framerate repair" disabled then it show OSD message and continue to make smooth video with wrong output framerate. It can lead to video delays and stutter.
In both cases when framerate becomes constant (CFR) SVP turns to new right smooth factor to make output framerate the same as screen refreshrate.

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

Great!

Thank you for your time.

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

I fail to see how this is relevant to my question, however.

Not with the original question.  Just wondered why Frameinterpolation alone doesnt give a satisfying result and forces someone to fall back to an inferior (less effective but also much less hardware intensive) way of smoothing motions with some kind of fake-interpolation.
I personaly would have thought, stuff like madVR smooth motion or SVPs own one are just there for people whos hardware cant afford true frame interpolation or high FPS one. (say, real interpolation from 24 to 48 and then faking it (madVR or SVPs own one) from 48 to 60.

So I thought, maybe the SVP settings could be improved. smile

But what was the saying in homeopathy? "He, who heals, is right." You feel better with it. So its fine. big_smile

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

And ignorance is bliss when you jump into conclusions like that; without really taking my plasma's smoothing into account and what its effects are. Additionally, improving the image only throughout SVP is generating far too many artifacts for my taste, we have reached to that conclusion after carefully evaluating image quality after hundreds of hours of watching movies and videos with others - sometimes scene by scene, and there is still room for improvement.

As for madVR's "inferior", and GPU direct interpolation, maybe you should do additional research on the matter, since for low framerate sources and high Hz monitors (120 / 240), it is extremely effective and the image is not as "blurry" as you expect it to be, given you have the appropriate configuration, even at 60 Hz.

12 (edited by Fanty1972 17-02-2014 04:18:13)

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

As I said, if you think it works, then its fine.
Its just that I prefer to use ONE anti depression pill brand at a time and not swallow 5 different brands of it, at once, it might cause unforeseen problems beeing used together. wink
Or 7 installing 7 different viruskiller softwares on one mashine, just to make sure.

Forgove me, but 3 different frame interpolation softwares in a row (SVP, madVR and your TVs), sounds strange to me.
Specially if you have SVP settings to "Frame rate". Whats the "Blend to screenrefreshrate" suposed to do in that case? Because say its 60Hz, SVP renders 24 to 60 frames. And then the blender is suposed to blend 60 frames to 60 frames?
It would be something different if SVP would have set to: "double frame rate". Then the blender would at least have something to do by blending 48 into 60.

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

madVR does simple frameblending. It is not motion interpolation in classic terms.

14 (edited by Fanty1972 18-02-2014 02:46:23)

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

madVR does simple frameblending. It is not motion interpolation in classic terms.

Yeah. Thats why I said "Fake interpolation" before.

The question remains, if blending frames to a screen refreshrate does actually anything if SVP already does real motion interpolation to screen refresh rate.

Because we are talking here about:
SVP turns 24 into screenrefreshrate, then madVR turns screenrefreshrate into screenrefreshrate and the TVs blending option turns screenrefreshrate once more into screenrefreshrate.

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

Fanty1972
if blending frames to a screen refreshrate does actually anything
SVP and madVR frame blending do nothing if framerate = screen refresh rate.
TV does any what it can. For example my TV (Philips 40PFL5007T) does frame interpolation to 100/120 fps from standard HDMI signal (1080p 50/60fps). In other words my TV does additional framedoubling wink

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

MAG79 wrote:

Fanty1972
if blending frames to a screen refreshrate does actually anything
SVP and madVR frame blending do nothing if framerate = screen refresh rate.
TV does any what it can. For example my TV (Philips 40PFL5007T) does frame interpolation to 100/120 fps from standard HDMI signal (1080p 50/60fps). In other words my TV does additional framedoubling wink

Hm ok.
But woulnt it be better if SVP does the 120 FPS instead of using interpolated (artefact distorted!) frames as source material for another interpolating? Or doesnt the connection support 120FPS?

I dont own a TV. Specially not one with interpolation. I own a Laptop with 120Hz screen and a Projector with 120Hz and use "to screen refresh rate" and the OSD on the projection says: 119,9999 whatever FPS.

Just my thoughts about this? (interpolated frame as source = not ideal)

Re: variable frame rate repair / Blend.. & smooth motion (madVR)

Fanty1972
woulnt it be better if SVP does the 120 FPS
No way to transmit 120 fps via HDMI to TV. So for TV it is the only way.
But my 144Hz monitor can show 120 and 144 fps via DVI and DP. For it I always use interpolation to screen refresh rate with ReClock to minimize interpolated frames amount between frames at SVP output.