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SmoothVideo Project → Posts by dawkinscm
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One card is clearly more powerful than the other so it's your choice depending on your needs. There is no simple answer to your final question but a quick search of these threads will give you more information including a thread dedicated to using LSFG and SVP. But short answer, SVP out of the box and LSFG are very similar. If you decide to use SVP with RIFE AI then MadVR adds extra GPU overhead which might favor LSFG which will be lighter on the GPU. LSFG and SVP can be combined. But with some considerable work and a decent GPU then SVP by itself is best overall.
But the end result might depend on your usage and tolerance for artifacts. I have a low tolerance so I put in the work to get the best results with SVP. Others on here are fine using SVP with RIFE AI (for example) for smoothness and accept the artifacts or are lucky enough to watch content like Anime that doesn't highlight them too much.
If others want to give you a more definite answer then good luck because there are too many variables for any definite answers to make sense. But you may only understand this after you make your decision and try things out for yourself.
Nice, then try to make a request to SVP devs to update default mpv config to remove "-copy", enable blend frames by default
and to drop RIFE support since out of the box SVP config outperforms in smoothness and quality.
And maybe allow users to select from menu dropdown higher values than "Movie Frame rate x6" multiplier and 240 fps. xD
Constructive feedback is always welcomed.
Not sure how serious to take this. Probably not serious at all but the questions don't make sense, even as jokes so maybe you misread a little?
1. SVP doesn't outperform RIFE "out of the box".
2. RIFE or not, SVP still needs a good GPU for the most optimised real time processing of live action content.
3. But the very early artifact riddled versions of RIFE used by some (anime?) users suggests that RIFE is still useful with lesser GPUs.
4.Why would "-copy" be removed when it might be actually needed?
5. Higher multipliers than x6 don't make much sense.
I stopped posting my configs because I was told they were useless and at that stage they could have been better which is why I called this lessons learned. A key point was not following the trend of using stupid amounts of overrides. There's a lot of valuable information on this forum but it is spread all over the place in little bits and pieces. I'm grateful for that info because it has opened my eyes to the possibilities of not using RIFE. Just trying to pay it forward a little.
1. Integer interpolation multipliers seem to work best which might be why 60fps isn't quite as smooth as it could be.
2. Most SVP defaults work best and "overrides" should be used sparingly. Otherwise you end up trying to fix problems that you caused.
3. Consistent frame pacing means less stutters. 1% lows are more consistent with "-copy".
4. Recent mpv versions will fallback to "copy" if needed which might be adding to frame pacing inconsistencies.
5. The most consistent frame-pacing on Windows mpv is with hw d3d11/d3d12.
6. If you have smooth motion with occasional micro-stutters then "Blend Frames" can help smooth them out.
7. With the above, there should be no longer be a need to increase default scene.blocks.limit for the Hugo intro.
I've said all this before, but 99% of the nasty RIFE artifacts are gone. Leaving only the occasional fast motion artifact which can be removed, but at the cost of slow pan smoothness. So unlike with RIFE, there is a choice because there are almost all artifacts can be removed. But the trick is to find the balance between zero artifacts and ultimate smoothness.
Bottom line is that if you have a good GPU and a 120Hz display then RIFE is dead.
What is "Force the exact value" under FPS change option? Does it do good or bad? It force 120fps if on and 119.88 when of. Which one is better?
Should I use 5x or 120fps for better smoothness?
What is "Width of top coarse level" ?
"Exact value" is useful for VR devices because they have fixed frame-rates. If you hover over each SVP option, a tooltip will come up explaining what each option is for. Or you can Google it and get even more detailed explanations. I can never understand questions for "better smoothness" without even trying anything yourself first.
P.S. I took my own advice, did more searching and found new information. Bottom line as I have said before is that the SVP defaults are mostly correct. But depending on your GPU and CPU they can be tweaked to produce optimal results ![]()
Just a reminder for those of you with Nvidia cards. Remember to set the Power Management Mode to Prefer Max Power. I forgot to set this on a different computer and although SVP still worked well, I wasn't able to optimise it to the fullest. In "Normal" power mode with SVP running, my GPU "rests" at about 103w. But in "Prefer max power" it hovers around maximum and never goes below 120w. The extra 20w removes any remaining artificial SVP bottleneck.
Hi everyone, when I enable SVP frame interpolation for HDR videos (HDR10) played via MPC-HC + madVR, I notice a slight color shift (especially in skin tones) compared to playback with SVP disabled. Is this expected behavior, and which SVP or madVR settings should be adjusted to preserve accurate HDR color while using SVP?
"Additional Options" -> "Allow Output in 10bit color depth".
Interesting... we need to get SVP to do DLSS, downscale the frames, then create the intermediate frames, and then upscale again to 4K to save the video, just like it does in video games. I don't know if it's possible, but I don't think it's impossible. I'm talking about transcoding, not viewing in a player, so I think the changes need to be made in the app, or on Steam, or wherever.
I'm not an expert on this, but the app developers might have an answer that would speed things up considerably.
Now we don't need that as I explained in your thread and it is practically impossible to do a good job with SVP which unlike DLSS is an external interpolation technology.
> I used to use RIFE to watch at 80fps on a 60fps display
and there're must be 20 dropped frames per second in this case, regardless of the player settings and even regardless of what the stats prints
I can imagine that with vsync off the player won't report any dropped frames
however the monitor will still update at 60 times per second
Yeah if I remember correctly I usually turned off Vsync or at least I played around with various timing options.
A question for the experts here: would it be possible to make RIFE work like DLSS does in games, by first downsizing the image to 1080p or 1440p and then upscaling it back to 4K? I don't think this is far-fetched, and I'm sure it would provide an extra speed boost during re-encoding. If this option exists, where should I set it up?
Greetings to everyone.
RIFE doesn't do anything. It's just an engine. SVP has the option to downscale. By default any downscaled output will be upscaled if run on a higher resolution display. Or you can control the upscale yourself with a media player. Check the SVP manual for details.
dawkinscm wrote:flowreen91 wrote:Ooh SVP updated to latest mpv version so it probably reseted your mpv.conf configuration file
and since it's newer mpv version, slight chance that it works slower than old version and might trigger this error in console:
https://gyazo.com/2cfe3723f732a057a8a838249d01320c (you can confirm by pressing ` in mpv)Try to play around with mpv.conf settings and see which removes the stutter:
hwdec=auto
or
hwdec=noadd this too if slowdown persists:
profile=fastIf you think it's caused by bad SVP settings, then go to your SVP profile -> Automatic options selection -> and select one of the default profiles to reset it to recommended settings, and restart SVP.
This should fix the recent performance issue.It's a more recent mpv version but not the latest, and it's not slower. Profile=fast will make some difference, but not enough to stop major packet loss. With this GPU, changing to hwdec=no will almost certainly perform worse than hwdec=auto. I also wouldn't use those SVP settings as some of them could be causing problems for your CPU as well as your GPU. Better off using Automatic after SVP checks performance, then start to tweak from there.
Also it's worth restarting SVP every so often otherwise performance will begin to suffer (possible memory leaks?).
It's nothing related to SVP; no matter what configuration I'm currently using, this problem occurs. It didn't happen a few days ago. I imagine it's some command in mpv.conf that I forgot to reset; I thought it was "display-sync=resample" or something similar. I tested them all, but nothing solved it... the lack of a backup cost me too much, hahaha.
I'm going to end up uninstalling and giving up on movies/series. I can't watch them in 1x speed; I find it too slow, and buying a product I can't use is a real shame.
I used to use RIFE to watch at 80fps on a 60fps display so what you are saying is possible, although that was on a 4080. SVP isn't the issue because no one else is suffering from this. Your SVP config could be an issue depending on your CPU which you haven't mentioned yet. Also you should post your mpv config on here. In the mean time, you can completely uninstall SVP, reboot then reinstall and retry with my previous Automatic profile suggestion.
matiasflyhigh wrote:Hello everyone,
a performance issue with the integrated mpv on SVP that hasn't occurred before. RecentlyOoh SVP updated to latest mpv version so it probably reseted your mpv.conf configuration file
and since it's newer mpv version, slight chance that it works slower than old version and might trigger this error in console:
https://gyazo.com/2cfe3723f732a057a8a838249d01320c (you can confirm by pressing ` in mpv)Try to play around with mpv.conf settings and see which removes the stutter:
hwdec=auto
or
hwdec=noadd this too if slowdown persists:
profile=fastIf you think it's caused by bad SVP settings, then go to your SVP profile -> Automatic options selection -> and select one of the default profiles to reset it to recommended settings, and restart SVP.
This should fix the recent performance issue.
It's a more recent mpv version but not the latest, and it's not slower. Profile=fast will make some difference, but not enough to stop major packet loss. With this GPU, changing to hwdec=no will almost certainly perform worse than hwdec=auto. I also wouldn't use those SVP settings as some of them could be causing problems for your CPU as well as your GPU. Better off using Automatic after SVP checks performance, then start to tweak from there.
Also it's worth restarting SVP every so often otherwise performance will begin to suffer (possible memory leaks?).
Also the dropped frames rising counter doesn't always mean that you see actual issues on screen. Partially because, good displays are can hide such issues and partly because just opening the mpv overlay is a minor tax on the system which can cause mpv to drop packets if you are already at the limit.
Nope, not useful.
Shame though coz now I've worked out how the original settings were created I was able to make more sense of what should actually be changed. Most of the changes in the OP are not unecessary at 120hz and with some tweaks probably not needed at 60Hz either. But no problem. Cool ![]()
My previous settings were very good, besting RIFE in almost every way. But using the OP settings as a baseline, I have been able to improve on my previous settings. I also have a little better understanding of how SVP actually works. So this was my pay it forward. But with no feedback it was difficult to tell if it's even worth continuing this. But maybe this is enough. I hope it's been useful ![]()
I think I understand how the previous list of settings were created. Once that clicked, it made it easier for me to make some changes and revert a couple of settings back to default. Short version; remove the pnew and pzero penalties. I also set lambda penalty to 4.0 but this is pure guesswork. But with these changes I was able to revert Decrease grid step from local, back to global. I also disabled Artifacts masking but I assume this was overridden anyway.
Please find attached
Different codec and bitrate, but both are within normal parameters. It might be the weird aspect ratio that SVP is struggling with?
I see a few people have downloaded the config and I would love some feedback. I'm particularly interested to hear about smoothness or lack of and CPU/GPU type and usage. I'm thinking about modding this for 60fps but not sure if that would be interesting since I'm sure others have already done that.
levels.pel = 1;
levels.scale.up = 1;
levels.scale.down = 1;
levels.full = true;
analyse.block.w = 32;
analyse.block.h = 32;
analyse.block.overlap = 2;
analyse.main.levels = 4;
analyse.main.search.type = 8;
analyse.main.search.distance = -8;
analyse.main.search.coarse.type = 4;
analyse.main.search.coarse.distance = -16;
analyse.main.search.coarse.bad.range = 0;
analyse.main.penalty.lambda = 1.0;
analyse.main.penalty.plevel = 4.0;
analyse.main.penalty.lsad = 800;
analyse.main.penalty.pnew = 5;
analyse.main.penalty.pglobal = 5;
analyse.main.penalty.pzero = 10;
analyse.main.penalty.pnbour = 5;
analyse.main.penalty.prev = 0;
analyse.refine[0] = {thsad:2000, search:{distance:2, type:4}};
smooth.algo = 23;
smooth.scene.mode = 0;
smooth.mask.cover = 20;
smooth.mask.area = 8;
smooth.mask.area_sharp = 0.70;
smooth.scene.limits.m1 = 3600;
smooth.scene.limits.m2 = 7200;
smooth.scene.limits.scene = 10400;
smooth.scene.limits.zero = 10;
smooth.scene.limits.blocks = 60;Try and tell me if its good or not
As suggested by @AutumnQueen, I've deleted the "not useful" configs. Some of you downloaded the attachment. Others hopefully found some use too ![]()
It's been an interesting balancing act trying to get the best out of all scenarios. RIFE like fast action smoothness & RIFE clarity are two separate things. Hugo intro style multiple types of complicated slow pans are another. The main thing I learned is that SVP default settings are mostly correct. I tried many of the other modifications and they usually make things subtly worse. But a small change in block percentage from 20 (the default) to 24 seems to be the last best mod I can make to my configuration The multiple complications of Hugo are dealt with better than ever, while not impacting normal slow and fast pans.
The good news is that GPU usage is almost halved. So CPU usage is now 2x GPU usage with peaks of 3x and rare peaks of 4x GPU usage.
I don't watch anime, only live-action movies in 4K on an LG OLED. I'll keep testing, but I can see it's impossible to go over 45 fps in 4K (RIFE and AUTO). Also, it's linear: if I do 1080p videos I reach 180 fps, and 2K is around 87-90 fps. It's clear to me that it's a hardware limitation, but I don't know what CPUs you guys are using. Anyway, thanks for the help—I'm learning a lot through this.
From a 3840x216op 3D MKV source, upscaled to 4K passing through SVP with resize disabled, my CPU normally runs at around 15%. But the full set of overrides you posted that increases another 10%. My GPU is pretty much unbothered by all of this which is how I learned about the SVP bottleneck lol. But my point is that those overrides seem to have a CPU tax as well as a GPU tax. If you have the option to fully enable Resizable BAR then I would do that.
If dawkinscm's config doesn't give good enough results, and tinkering with the profile settings might make it slower, i would also test with the default automatic profile + masking disabled (to confirm if it's better/worse).
I've previously suggested exactly this and I have posted settings based on augmenting the Automatic Profile. My current settings do the same thing, but taken to the next level with overrides.
And lowering the monitor resolution a bit if it's already at 3840x2160 (but you only watch movies at 1920x1080).
You can also use the "Alter video frame size" button to lower the amount of pixels that get interpolated:
https://gyazo.com/92109d19b50e5eeb29a72123fc0ea5a8
But the quality loss is not worth it if u ask me.Surely applying a combination of above will get u to stable 120 fps.
It depends on the size of the screen. On very large screens, just as upscaling to 4k can make the movie "appear" to be sharper and clearer. A reduction in resolution can also become noticeable in certain movie scenes.
As previously explained, going from 24fps to 60fps is one thing, but getting to 120fps is another. My settings provide a rock solid smooth 120fps and almost completely passes the Hugo test
, but that's with the display already running at 120Hz. There are (let's say) more GPU efficient ways of achieving the 120fps goal. The issue isn't just the GPU though, SVP itself is part of the bottleneck. So I would not recommend using my latest settings on a 60Hz display. Looking at what the full set of overrides did on my CPU, @raider10 might be hitting both a CPU and GPU bottleneck. I do recommend using my previously posted settings as a baseline then using the appropriate overrides to reduce the possible SVP bottleneck.
After running some tests, I am seeing artifacts now with a new video I'm watching, especially in the CGI intro scenes. With RIFE and the 4.4V2 model, this doesn't happen and it looks perfect. I think it depends a lot on the scenes, but I've noticed that in computer animations (not the movie itself, but in production company intros, text, etc.), there are visible artifacts—sometimes even quite large ones. It's just a matter of trial and error. Thanks again!
My settings reduce artifacts to a bare minimum. But if you are mainly watching Anime then RIFE will do a good job. If RIFE 4.4 is working for then the overrides you posted are overkill and my settings are quadruple overkill ![]()
Great! With your experience, I'm sure you'll manage to improve it. If you succeed, would you be so kind as to post your config so I can try it out myself? Thanks!
I use a 65-inch screen and I honestly find it hard to spot any artifacts; maybe I'm just not paying enough attention. When I have more time, I'll be more thorough while watching to find any flaws. Compared to RIFE, is it better?
Oh I've improved it all right lol and I will post the settings. Also you may be right about the CPU because I heard my PC fans spin up and when I checked it was the CPU being hit a little harder than before. Are these settings better than RIFE? lol All my previous settings on this thread are better than RIFE. My settings on the other thread the same. The settings you provided are way better than all my previous settings but is specifically designed for 24fp to 60fps only, so it needs modding for different setups.
My attached settings are for my setup running at 120fps so you may need to add the multipliers in the original post to these settings. I mentioned before that I added estimation complexity and you will see this if you compare it to my other posts. Also, I'm going to re-emphasize that I can see the aura artifacts mentioned in the original thread as well as other fleeting artifacts that you don't see. I don't just see micro-stutters, I see nano-stutters. Finally I am very sensitive to interpolation drag or delay which literally make my eyes feel like they are being dragged in the same direction as the camera pan. So some of these settings are going to be overkill . But you asked for it ![]()
Well, definitely, I must have some kind of issue. In automatic mode with your settings, I'm not going over 63fps (which is already pretty good for me). I don't see any noticeable artifacts, but the movie I tested—aside from some vegetation and very fast movements—doesn't have many challenging scenes. However, I do have a config added to the override.js file; I'm not sure if that's a good thing or just a coincidence."
"I think my bottleneck might be the CPU, an i5 12400f with only 12 threads; I can't think of anything else. I'm leaving my override settings here—I got them from a thread on this forum, but I don't remember which one
levels.pel = 2;
levels.scale.up = 2;
levels.scale.down = 4;
levels.full = true;
analyse.block.w = 32;
analyse.block.h = 32;
analyse.block.overlap = 1;
analyse.main.levels = 4;
analyse.main.search.type = 4;
analyse.main.search.distance = -24;
analyse.main.search.coarse.type = 4;
analyse.main.search.coarse.distance = -5;
analyse.main.search.coarse.bad.range = 0;
analyse.main.penalty.lambda = 1.0;
analyse.main.penalty.plevel = 4.0;
analyse.main.penalty.lsad = 800;
analyse.main.penalty.pnew = 5;
analyse.main.penalty.pglobal = 5;
analyse.main.penalty.pzero = 10;
analyse.main.penalty.pnbour = 5;
analyse.main.penalty.prev = 0;
analyse.refine[0] = {thsad:2000, search:{distance:2, type:4}};
smooth.rate.num = 5;
smooth.rate.den = 2;
smooth.algo = 21;
smooth.scene.mode = 0;
smooth.mask.cover = 10;
smooth.scene.limits.m1 = 3600;
smooth.scene.limits.m2 = 7200;
smooth.scene.limits.scene = 10400;
smooth.scene.limits.zero = 10;
smooth.scene.limits.blocks = 90;
I added these penalty overrides to my overrides and I have to admit that they make mostly a positive difference. The negative is that I can see a slight increase in artifacts , but I don't think these would e noticeable on a TV. There's also an occasional full stutter which I don't have with my settings, even with the Hugo intro. The main positive is that it increases SVP's responsiveness and significantly reduces SVP bottlenecking. I'm going to see if some of the other overrides "very slight" increase in artifacts and stuttering. Now I'm even more interested in reading the rationale behind these changes ![]()
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As an update, I added most of the remaining overrides. One I've used before but in this case it doesn't work with this combination of overrides and my personal overrides. With my settings alone, RIFE is no longer needed. But with these combined settings, it was never needed. There's still the very occasional major stutter which my settings don't have. But for this level of smoothness and responsiveness that's a very, very small price and maybe with some tweaking I can get rid of those too.
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Another (final?) update: Using the settings above with some modifications combined with what were my current settings are the smoothest I've ever seen SVP run overall. But I watch on a very large screen so I see artifacts that most people won't. I'm also very sensitive to interpolation delays that I can't see, but it feels like something is literally pulling on my eyes. So I'm back to using my previous overrides but with your penalties and, m1,m2 limits. I'm guessing the penalties changes frees up SVP resources enabling me to to increase motion estimation complexity a little, leading to smoother motion and less visible artifacts. I'm not sure what m1 and m2 do, but they add a smoothness to my slow pans that I wasn't able to reach before.
BTW I found the original post you got the settings from. They do mention the artifacts around bodies that I have been seeing and the block changes they suggest are similar to mine.
SmoothVideo Project → Posts by dawkinscm
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