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RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:I dont know, but LSFG cant create more quality frames from already bad frames, since RIFE had own artifacts, LSFG just doubles/triples/quadruples the amount.
For me, RIFE v4.15v2l x3 + LSFG x3/240 create much more consistent frames, fluid.
But LSFG is generating this on it's own without RIFE. Objects on the screen become so warped they become almost unrecognizable. But only with this one movie.
Anyway, thats better than 24>240 natively which pulls my GPU at above 80 degrees huh, also not smooth.
Warped? You can play with tolerances, warped UI? Can play with UI detection thresholds.
I fixed Alita. I don't really understand UI detection. But I assume it's looking for menu/HUD elements in a game, so I guessed that if I increased the number it would try less to detect it. Setting UI detect to 10 and tolerance to 1 has fixed the Alita problem. Overall SVP with Rife v4 is a little smoother and clearer than LSFG3.1. But LSFG is smooth enough at 96fps which is higher than the 80fps I get with SVP, it has very little affect on GPU, rewinding etc and seems to have far less artifacts. So this might be my default. Thanks again 
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:I dont know, but LSFG cant create more quality frames from already bad frames, since RIFE had own artifacts, LSFG just doubles/triples/quadruples the amount.
For me, RIFE v4.15v2l x3 + LSFG x3/240 create much more consistent frames, fluid.
But LSFG is generating this on it's own without RIFE. Objects on the screen become so warped they become almost unrecognizable. But only with this one movie.
Anyway, thats better than 24>240 natively which pulls my GPU at above 80 degrees huh, also not smooth.
Warped? You can play with tolerances, warped UI? Can play with UI detection thresholds.
Warped picture. I think you said tolerance should be set to '1'? I think I've tried both the default '0.05' and '1' but I will check and try again.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Try adaptive mode target.
The artifacts are being caused by the interstitial fake frames. Adaptive mode creates more a lot more fake frames. Can't see that helping. For whatever reason, the fast motion scenes in Alita are a mess with LSFG even if using with SVP.
I dont know, but LSFG cant create more quality frames from already bad frames, since RIFE had own artifacts, LSFG just doubles/triples/quadruples the amount.
For me, RIFE v4.15v2l x3 + LSFG x3/240 create much more consistent frames, fluid.
But LSFG is generating this on it's own without RIFE. Objects on the screen become so warped they become almost unrecognizable. But only with this one movie.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:OK the artifacts issue is just one movie. I can get 120 natively but with LSFG I suppose I can only get 120 by running SVP at 60 with 2 multiplier.
Try adaptive mode target.
The artifacts are being caused by the interstitial fake frames. Adaptive mode creates more a lot more fake frames. Can't see that helping. For whatever reason, the fast motion scenes in Alita are a mess with LSFG even if using with SVP.
OK the artifacts issue is just one movie. I can get 120 natively but with LSFG I suppose I can only get 120 by running SVP at 60 with 2 multiplier.
RickyAstle98 wrote:Chainik wrote:> some VF filters ignored in 291 build
be more specific
Net.
I don't understand what is going on with LSFG. Most of today it was working perfectly with or without SVP with no artifacts (except from SVP). It was also accepting 120Hz from my display settings as the base for interpolation and not 24Hz from the video. That has stopped working and the LSFG artifacts are back. Tried a reboot just to make sure. But all the problems I had before are now back and I have no idea why.
RickyAstle98 wrote:@Chainik, what happened to new update? The mpv update broken, prevents filters usage.
Or just put download link to 0.40.0-290 please?
I've been using my own mpv version for a few years. The current svp version of mpv is well behind more recent builds which helps to fix issues with modern srgb and gamma2.2 displays. This especially helps with near black issues.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Its always system dependant, on my machine, SVP (RIFE) works better than friends beast setup, different drivers can make huge difference, especially on high end machines.
As 4070 user, can clearly state 50 series lmao expensive thing, no need for LSFG? You cant do 4K X10 on 5090 yet!
Im talking about people who have very high refresh monitors like 360 Hertz or even greater! I will upgrade to 600Hz monitor soon!
So what do you do about the fast motion artifacts?
Nothing, just doing RIFE x3 + 240Hz target!
It turns out that there are two bottlenecks, not just the GPU because SVP also seems to have an upper processing limit. Even with my GPU running at 50%, I can't go above 80fps before the movement becomes choppy with 4K 3D movie files. LSFG takes me well above 80fps but SVP is smoother so using them both together, they compliment each other.
I finally got SVP working with LSFG 3.1 Fixed. 4K 3D input, SVP Rife (4.25-4.26 heavy) set to 60Hz and IC 6%. For watching movies, anything above 60Hz shows no obvious difference, so sticking to 90-120Hz. But I can easily do 240Hz even though flow scale is 100%. I just wish there was a Rife model with even less artifacts. Running IC at 4% reduces artifacts to the bare minimum but its choppy for slow pans so I'm using 6-8%.
Thanks telling us about LSFG
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Requote my previous post please, updated details, not depends, smoother on my GPU lmao!
It basically brute forces SVP into working, so even running with IC at 8% is still smooth. No need for LSFG, config files or anything else. Seen it with my own eyes. I'm sure LSFG helps with smoothness overall, but this just works.
Its always system dependant, on my machine, SVP (RIFE) works better than friends beast setup, different drivers can make huge difference, especially on high end machines.
As 4070 user, can clearly state 50 series lmao expensive thing, no need for LSFG? You cant do 4K X10 on 5090 yet!
Im talking about people who have very high refresh monitors like 360 Hertz or even greater! I will upgrade to 600Hz monitor soon!
So what do you do about the fast motion artifacts?
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Just seen someone running SVP exactly my settings (5 days ago / LSFG ontop)
RTX 4070 OC peaks 88% GPU usage @ 1.100V (72C)
RTX 5090 peaks 35% GPU usage @ 0.960V (55C)
It's a bit of a beast. With something like that you realize how much of the smoothness depends on the GPU.
Requote my previous post please, updated details, not depends, smoother on my GPU lmao!
It basically brute forces SVP into working, so even running with IC at 8% is still smooth. No need for LSFG, config files or anything else. Seen it with my own eyes. I'm sure LSFG helps with smoothness overall, but this just works.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:BTW I've just seen someone running SVP with my settings. The RTX 4080 runs at around 100% on my machine. The 5090 runs the same settings at 38%!!!
Just seen someone running SVP exactly my settings (5 days ago), about 90% usage on my RTX 4070 OC, while 5090 running 35% at low voltages (0.960 instead of 1.100V)!
It's a bit of a beast. Turn everything up and it still doesn't break 50%. With something like that you realize how much of the smoothness you see depends on the GPU.
BTW I've just seen someone running SVP with my settings. The RTX 4080 runs at around 100% on my machine. The 5090 runs the same settings at 38%!!!
flowreen91 wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:You DIDNT changed CONFIGURATION FILE parameters, real timestamp tolerance to 1 plz, then try to generate, LSFG will ignore generated frames and will duplicate or generate stutter frames instead of generating! Actual GPU usage decreased, tried to use on 90% usage before LSFG ontop, hidden trick only adds extra 2% without drops!
If i set real_timestamp_tolerance to 1, it shows 24/1000 fps but panning scenes move choppy exactly like original 24 fps, meaning it moves like 1x with scaling effect ON.
https://gyazo.com/1e5904f7c6a47c63612a93f2f134247f
Where is the black insertion setting and what does it do?
For performance increase, just change HDR support checkbox to OFF, that's the real memory hog.
After further tweaking, i think these settings actually improve smoothness, giving stable fps:
https://gyazo.com/d059ced2c024cab4abc2f9a972b92377
Thanks Ricky!
I'm upgrading soon. My aim is to try and get at least to 80fps with SVP although my hope is 120fps. If LFSG can help with that then that will be great. Those settings you posted does that include the config file changes mentioned previously? How smooth is the result? I gave up on LFSG because of horrible fast motion artifacts so how were those?
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:1) The LSFG alone provides better frame/motion handling than basic SVP algorithm at any settings, also better UI detection, the text and UI elements almost ignored for interpolation!
2) Dont mix SVP/LSFG algorithms together, RIFE/LSFG for better quality and perfect smoothness levels!
3) You can play with CONFIG through Lossless directory, you can make zero interpolation look better, magic!
About 3rd: when you want flatten the playback out of RIFE alone - make sure you edited framerate_tolerance to 1 and interplation multiplier to 1, which would trigger interesting things, better suited with black frame insertion, CRT shader, not implemented yet!
1. It does seem overall to be smoother than even Rife
2. I meant Rife/LSFG.
3. With multiplier set to one, I get massive judder with or without Rife so it's not a GPU thing.
OK. I've found the issue. Rife is smoother with MPV than MPC but GPU usage is a little heavier. VR pushes it over the top so there is no headroom. But it seems to work with LSFG for MPC.
3. Theres no judder with proper CONFIG .cfg parameters, you can make no interpolation looks better, LSFG has a lot of hidden tricks! Thats GPU and backend thing!
1. Ofcourse LSFG smoother, tested many times, smoothness is our priority!
Hidden trick: with proper .cfg parameters, for example, you want to trigger 2x LFC instead of monitor 3x LFC strategy, works!
Example: video container 24 fps > 2x interpolation w/real timestamp tolerance 1, with that hybrid I can actually activate black frame insertion thing!
I was just talking about performance. LFSG is smooth. But it has some artifacts that can't be fixed except maybe by making multiplier x1 which won't work with my GPU because I don't have enough headroom when using VR.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Stutter-free: 565.90 driver (threshold 15%)
External capture: 72 fps (to count every single VRR jitter/stutters)
Rule: everything less than 8% of movie duration can be considered as stutter-free!
Capture results: 5.8% of stutters (high GPU load)
Capture results: 4.0% of stutters (medium GPU load)
Capture results: 4.5% of stutters (RIFE x3 + LSFG x1)
Capture results: 3.5% of stutters (RIFE x3 + LSFG x1)
LSFG was on sale so I bought a copy. I was able to get very smooth motion with 3.1 4x multiplier and 2.7 x2 or x4 (can't remember). Used by itself there is almost no hit on the GPU but the artifacts are obvious and pretty horrible. With SVP I was finally able to get them working together. But, LSFG has horrible artifacts for fast motion which ever way you use it which is a shame because otherwise it would be great.
1) The LSFG alone provides better frame/motion handling than basic SVP algorithm at any settings, also better UI detection, the text and UI elements almost ignored for interpolation!
2) Dont mix SVP/LSFG algorithms together, RIFE/LSFG for better quality and perfect smoothness levels!
3) You can play with CONFIG through Lossless directory, you can make zero interpolation look better, magic!
About 3rd: when you want flatten the playback out of RIFE alone - make sure you edited framerate_tolerance to 1 and interplation multiplier to 1, which would trigger interesting things, better suited with black frame insertion, CRT shader, not implemented yet!
1. It does seem overall to be smoother than even Rife
2. I meant Rife/LSFG.
3. With multiplier set to one, I get massive judder with or without Rife so it's not a GPU thing.
OK. I've found the issue. Rife is smoother with MPV than MPC but GPU usage is a little heavier. VR pushes it over the top so there is no headroom. But it seems to work with LSFG for MPC.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Then thats GPU issue, too high peaks, need some headroom to make LSFG work with!
UPD: I dont understand people with Windows 11 and 4K monitors, that trying to make 4K at newest models!
For me, RIFE x2 (FullHD) + LSFG refresh target, enough, better than RIFE x3 and also smoother, double effect!
I should mention that I'm using VR which means I have less GPU headroom then you do. But FWIW, after more testing I've found an IC 6% setup that works with slow pans and fast action and doesn't stutter in between. There are a few decent Nvidia drivers but 366.36 is still the most stutter free. I've re-enabled MPO and using Windows Optimizations with MPV. Before I was able to run Exclusive-fs without Optimizations and I may return to that, but this also works. I've always run MPV without hwdec, but for IC 6%, hwdec seems to be better. Interpolation is running also. Finally for VR, regular rebooting of the router is absolutely necessary otherwise random stutters will happen because of the wifi connection between the headset and router.
The end result is smooth without the Rife v4.25 vertical motion artifacts and only very occasional micro-stutters.
Stutter-free: 565.90 driver (threshold 15%)
External capture: 72 fps (to count every single VRR jitter/stutters)
Rule: everything less than 8% of movie duration can be considered as stutter-free!
Capture results: 5.8% of stutters (high GPU load)
Capture results: 4.0% of stutters (medium GPU load)
Capture results: 4.5% of stutters (RIFE x3 + LSFG x1)
Capture results: 3.5% of stutters (RIFE x3 + LSFG x1)
LSFG was on sale so I bought a copy. I was able to get very smooth motion with 3.1 4x multiplier and 2.7 x2 or x4 (can't remember). Used by itself there is almost no hit on the GPU but the artifacts are obvious and pretty horrible. With SVP I was finally able to get them working together. But, LSFG has horrible artifacts for fast motion which ever way you use it which is a shame because otherwise it would be great.
zxcvbnm821 wrote:Has HAGS improved enough that you no longer recommend turning it off for RIFE?
What’s the current advice — keep it on unless it causes stutter, or disable it for smoother playback?
As @RickyAstle98 said, it depends on your setup. I get massive stutters but others users with similar setups have no issues.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Then thats GPU issue, too high peaks, need some headroom to make LSFG work with!
UPD: I dont understand people with Windows 11 and 4K monitors, that trying to make 4K at newest models!
For me, RIFE x2 (FullHD) + LSFG refresh target, enough, better than RIFE x3 and also smoother, double effect!
I should mention that I'm using VR which means I have less GPU headroom then you do. But FWIW, after more testing I've found an IC 6% setup that works with slow pans and fast action and doesn't stutter in between. There are a few decent Nvidia drivers but 366.36 is still the most stutter free. I've re-enabled MPO and using Windows Optimizations with MPV. Before I was able to run Exclusive-fs without Optimizations and I may return to that, but this also works. I've always run MPV without hwdec, but for IC 6%, hwdec seems to be better. Interpolation is running also. Finally for VR, regular rebooting of the router is absolutely necessary otherwise random stutters will happen because of the wifi connection between the headset and router.
The end result is smooth without the Rife v4.25 vertical motion artifacts and only very occasional micro-stutters.
Stutter-free: 565.90 driver (threshold 15%)
External capture: 72 fps (to count every single VRR jitter/stutters)
Rule: everything less than 8% of movie duration can be considered as stutter-free!
Capture results: 5.8% of stutters (high GPU load)
Capture results: 4.0% of stutters (medium GPU load)
Capture results: 4.5% of stutters (RIFE x3 + LSFG x1)
Capture results: 3.5% of stutters (RIFE x3 + LSFG x1)
From testing, my current setup (finally) gives me not more than 1% stuttering. More than that usually means it's time to reboot the router. I'm not 100% about this, but it's definitely less than 5%. Looks like we both happy but maybe it took me a lot more work lol.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Type: 3.1 (better overall) / Fixed x2 / Adaptive refresh
Flow scale: for 4K you can use lowest possible 25% without performance mode
Capture: WGC recommended for Win11 users, try both, WGC provides less latency!
Queue target: ofcourse 2 (cuz we already at peaks)
Sync mode: Vsync
Max frame latency: 15
GSync support: supposed to be off (when you targeting refresh)
Type: Tried all the types. Fixed refresh isn't possible, only Adaptive.
Flow scale: I tried 25% as well as 50%
Capture: Tried this just now.
Sync mode: I use Vsync. Tried without just in case.
Gsync is off and all Nvidia gsync settings have been disabled on my machine.
I also cropped about 40% of the screen assuming 20 at the top and bottom does that.
None of the above made any difference. I'm using too much GPU. V2 models no longer make any real difference for me. I recently noticed a difference in quality between v1 and v2 models which is why I went back to v1. I never noticed it before, but my viewing equipment is much better with 4k per eye resolution and better overall clarity.
Then thats GPU issue, too high peaks, need some headroom to make LSFG work with!
UPD: I dont understand people with Windows 11 and 4K monitors, that trying to make 4K at newest models!
For me, RIFE x2 (FullHD) + LSFG refresh target, enough, better than RIFE x3 and also smoother, double effect!
I should mention that I'm using VR which means I have less GPU headroom then you do. But FWIW, after more testing I've found an IC 6% setup that works with slow pans and fast action and doesn't stutter in between. There are a few decent Nvidia drivers but 366.36 is still the most stutter free. I've re-enabled MPO and using Windows Optimizations with MPV. Before I was able to run Exclusive-fs without Optimizations and I may return to that, but this also works. I've always run MPV without hwdec, but for IC 6%, hwdec seems to be better. Interpolation is running also. Finally for VR, regular rebooting of the router is absolutely necessary otherwise random stutters will happen because of the wifi connection between the headset and router.
The end result is smooth without the Rife v4.25 vertical motion artifacts and only very occasional micro-stutters.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Type: 3.1 (better overall) / Fixed x2 / Adaptive refresh
Flow scale: for 4K you can use lowest possible 25% without performance mode
Capture: WGC recommended for Win11 users, try both, WGC provides less latency!
Queue target: ofcourse 2 (cuz we already at peaks)
Sync mode: Vsync
Max frame latency: 15
GSync support: supposed to be off (when you targeting refresh)
Type: Tried all the types. Fixed refresh isn't possible, only Adaptive.
Flow scale: I tried 25% as well as 50%
Capture: Tried this just now.
Sync mode: I use Vsync. Tried without just in case.
Gsync is off and all Nvidia gsync settings have been disabled on my machine.
I also cropped about 40% of the screen assuming 20 at the top and bottom does that.
None of the above made any difference. I'm using too much GPU. V2 models no longer make any real difference for me. I recently noticed a difference in quality between v1 and v2 models which is why I went back to v1. I never noticed it before, but my viewing equipment is much better with 4k per eye resolution and better overall clarity.
Then thats GPU issue, too high peaks, need some headroom to make LSFG work with!
UPD: I dont understand people with Windows 11 and 4K monitors, that trying to make 4K at newest models!
For me, RIFE x2 (FullHD) + LSFG refresh target, enough, better than RIFE x3 and also smoother, double effect!
Agreed. I have a lot more headroom than I used to, but it's still only about 10% on average.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Not only flow scale or generation type can make a difference at high loads, play with different settings, as LSFG professional owner, can say proper settings!
What other settings are there that have can reduce GPU load without affecting quality? I will try those.
Type: 3.1 (better overall) / Fixed x2 / Adaptive refresh
Flow scale: for 4K you can use lowest possible 25% without performance mode
Capture: WGC recommended for Win11 users, try both, WGC provides less latency!
Queue target: ofcourse 2 (cuz we already at peaks)
Sync mode: Vsync
Max frame latency: 15
GSync support: supposed to be off (when you targeting refresh)
Type: Tried all the types. Fixed refresh isn't possible, only Adaptive.
Flow scale: I tried 25% as well as 50%
Capture: Tried this just now.
Sync mode: I use Vsync. Tried without just in case.
Gsync is off and all Nvidia gsync settings have been disabled on my machine.
I also cropped about 40% of the screen assuming 20 at the top and bottom does that.
None of the above made any difference. I'm using too much GPU. V2 models no longer make any real difference for me. I recently noticed a difference in quality between v1 and v2 models which is why I went back to v1. I never noticed it before, but my viewing equipment is much better with 4k per eye resolution and better overall clarity.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Depends on settings, just drop your settings screenshot, will try to bring usable parameters, LSFG doesnt work better at peaks, cant discard frames just-in-time, unload frames in-time!
Thanks for the offer, but I don't have any settings because tried everything except anything that said quality drop like performance mode. 3.1 is a no/no. 2.1 with x2 works. 1.1 I think works worse than 2.1. Flow scale set to 50% and scaling scaling off.
Not only flow scale or generation type can make a difference at high loads, play with different settings, as LSFG professional owner, can say proper settings!
What other settings are there that have can reduce GPU load without affecting quality? I will try those.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:What LS settings are you running? Just drop screenshot, dont use LSFG on 3D content, works differently!
Dont use LSFG when your performance already at peaks, LSFG about 8 times less resource-sensitive, but you cant get 240FPS out-of-box when your system only allows 160 for example!
The rule of thumb: can run RIFE x3? = can run RIFE x2 + LSFG x4 easy!
Using 3D, 100% GPU spikes but mostly around 90% so
Depends on settings, just drop your settings screenshot, will try to bring usable parameters, LSFG doesnt work better at peaks, cant discard frames just-in-time, unload frames in-time!
Thanks for the offer, but I don't have any settings because tried everything except anything that said quality drop like performance mode. 3.1 is a no/no. 2.1 with x2 works somewhat OK. I think 1.1 doesn't work as well as 2.1. Flow scale set to 50% and scaling scaling off.
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:Thanks for the try out My 4080 drops too many frame when I try to run this and Rife v4.25 with 4K 3D unless I use LSFG 2.1 x2 scale. Even at 1440p in the lower quality adaptive mode too many frames get dropped when running LSFG 3.1. Maybe Performance mode would work but there's no point if I'm going to loose the laser projector like quality I have. Interesting software though.
What LS settings are you running? Just drop screenshot, dont use LSFG on 3D content, works differently!
Dont use LSFG when your performance already at peaks, LSFG about 8 times less resource-sensitive, but you cant get 240FPS out-of-box when your system only allows 160 for example!
The rule of thumb: can run RIFE x3? = can run RIFE x2 + LSFG x4 easy!
Using 3D, 100% GPU spikes but mostly around 90% so
RickyAstle98 wrote:dawkinscm wrote:RickyAstle98 wrote:Looks like only LSFG works well, no matter of drivers, making low framerate content look better!
RIFE + LSFG = better (for me)
As better, because RIFE 24>72 looks good but framepacing issue still occurs (driver issue), LSFG 72 target, voila, buttery smooth! Magic!
Where do you get it from? Steam purchase?
Yes, Steam purchase, 1.5$ on sale, but you can use LS program w/o Steam!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oS9coY … sp=sharing
UPD: Tested on 8 different PC and 3 operation systems, LS behavior always the same, magic works!
Thanks for the try out My 4080 drops too many frame when I try to run this and Rife v4.25 with 4K 3D unless I use LSFG 2.1 x2 scale. Even at 1440p in the lower quality adaptive mode too many frames get dropped when running LSFG 3.1. Maybe Performance mode would work but there's no point if I'm going to loose the laser projector like quality I have. Interesting software though.
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