1,126

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

The sharpening is because AAC consistently has more treble - I noticed this back before they introduced Opus.

However, regarding actual detail, from the minor testing I did I fould that AAC actually had muddier "background" detail, if that makes any sense in an audio context.  This was consistent across all sampling rates, but was least noticeable with 44.1KHz content - either that or it was because, out of everything I tested, I was the least familiar with the 44.1khz content (I'm hoping to change that for tomorrow!)


EDIT: And one thing I'd just like to point out, for 32KHz the difference between Opus and AAC was like night and day.  It's possible that the resampling has something to do with it since 48KHz is exactly 1.5x of 32KHz while 44.1KHz is some wonky fraction (UPDATE: just checked, it's 1.378125x of 32KHz).

1,127

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Plain and simple, 160kbps Opus is better than 256kbps AAC - no ifs, ands,or buts.


During my ABX-ing, if I by chance played the AAC version first (note that I always play the first track for 5-10 minutes straight), when I switched to the second audio track I could tell literally within 5-10 seconds that it was higiher quality, and every single time this occurred the second and higher quality-sounding track was Opus.  It didn't matter if the source audio that was uploaded to YouTube was 22050Hz, 32KHz, 96KHz (all in lossless), or even a 44.1KHz 160kbps MP3 that was 7 years old - Opus was always better.

Interestingly enough, if I ended up playing the Opus version first and then played the AAC version second, it wasn't obvious at all that it was lower quality.  I didn't figure out until late that, whenever I did not notice an almost obvious difference within 5-10 seconds, it meant that the first track I played was Opus.

One distinct thing I noticed repeatedly was that the Opus version was constantly more "musical" and enjoyable while the AAC version was almost more "artificial" and boring, ironically even for synthesized electronic songs!


Fun fact: the quality difference between 256kbps AAC and 128kbps vorbis is similar to the difference between 160kbps Opus and 256kbps AAC.



EDIT: Oh, and regarding my audio setup, it's much more budget-fi yet it still amazes me that it seems to still get the job done with results comparable to more expensive setups.  It's the Monoprice 9963 IEMs with LostEarBuds single-flange medium-sized tips plugged directly into a Xonar DS with an LME49990 op amp; audio for the ABX-ing was played back in foobar2000 via ASIO (the only way to avoid resampling on Asus sound cards - yes the stupid drivers even resample WASAPI exclusive!)


EDIT 2: I must admit though, I actually didn't do a lot of testing with 44.1KHz native content since it seemed that most of my YouTube videos with 44.1KHz source content did not have Opus encodings (that above-mentioned 160kbps MP3 being the only major one), so I may just test that a bit more sometime tomorrow...other than that though, Opus is definitely better

1,128

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Mystery wrote:

at 128kb, the various codecs even out.

That's why I was making a point about being able to ABX 192kbps Vorbis from 128kbps Vorbis.  wink

For reference the source video (which I personally uploaded) that was uploaded to YouTube had lossless audio, and I don't just mean lossless-edited audio - the actual audio track was a song that was sourced in FLAC.


Speaking of which, fun fact: YouTube supports FLAC audio in the MKV container. tongue

1,129

(17 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Well for one thing, before smart phones, raw CPU performance was hardly an issue and the main concern was purely battery life, so there was considerably less R&D on ARM CPUs and similar.  Therefore, we should not be surprised that once smartphones came onto the scene that ARM CPUs started being developed and invested into on a much greater scale.

In other words, it's more like the rapid development of ARM CPUs is making up for all the years before hand - the performance increase of ARM CPUs in the last 8 years or so is very comparable to the performance increase in desktop CPUs from the mid 90s to the mid 2000s, at which point one could argue that all the low-hanging fruit architecturally were taken care of.

1,130

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Mystery wrote:

OK I'll remove the 35% bonus for non-DASH WebM.

Well it's still possible it could be better - I'm just saying that you should not blindly use 35% since VP9 is quite a bit better than VP8 and therefore do some testing of the quality difference.

Mystery wrote:

Make some tests with Opus and let me know. Do you have good headphones or speakers to test it?

Let me put it this way, I could hear a difference during an ABX-ing between 128kbps Vorbis and 192kbps Vorbis from YouTube (when the latter format was available anyway).

1,131

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

You should probably not use the same ratio for VP8 since it's quality is not even better than h.264 at the same bitrate (maybe against h.264 baseline)

And regarding Opus, it actually is flat-out the best general lossy audio codec currently available.  Now since YouTube's AAC encoder isn't all that great, it's still possible that Opus could in fact be better.

1,132

(17 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Not entirely - CPU tech has mostly stagnated except in core-count (and power consumption), and SVP is one of the few things that actually likes as many cores as you can throw at it.

Though one could argue that it's because AMD had a turd with Bulldozer which caused Intel to be lazy, but let's not turn this into an AMD vs Intel flamewar...

1,133

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Even better than non-DASH 360p h.264, aka fmt18?

Also, quick question - your 35% size calculation for determining h.264 vs VP9 - is this only for the DASH video stream alone without any audio?


Speaking of audio, since I've now got that Opus mod I rigged up for CompleteYouTubeSaver, I can finally do the quality comparison between 160kbps Opus, 128kbps Vorbis, and 256kbps AAC.  Also, it must be noted that Opus does not support 44.1KHz so anything of that sampling rate will be resampled to 48KHz - this is something I will definitely be investigating quality-wise.

1,134

(17 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Also consider that it's much more difficult (at least currently) to deal with a GPU-bottleneck in SVP than a CPU-bottleneck.

1,135

(3 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Does PotPlayer have a "D3D Fullscreen" function like MPC-HC?  If so, try that.

Alternatively, are you able to use MadVR?  By default it uses a renderer similar to D3D Fullscreen, so you could try that as well (if your PC is low-end, then just use low-quality settings).

1,136

(9 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Question about the $10 "Forever Free" tier - SVP currently is already completely free, does this imply that SVP may not be free in the future?  Alternatively, does it mean that, if for whatever reason SVP is not free software in the future, then it'll still be free for those that contributed at least $10?

1,137

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

None whatsoever.

The only thing I can suggest is asking the developer himself.


BTW, I'm going to guess that 256kbps AAC still exists for browsers and such that don't support Opus (particularly IE and Safari along with plain-old flash player).

1,138

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Uhhh, I checked my downloads with foobar2000 which reports bitrate in realtime during playback, and the audio was easily over 200kbps...

Maybe I should upload the 256kbps AAC file of that YouTube video in question just to prove that it actually exists? tongue


Regarding the 2x WebM streams, I have no idea - I've never seen that before. O_o


EDIT: And just to make sure I'm not crazy, I checked with MPC-HC as well, and yes it's definitely over 200kbps.


EDIT 2: I don't know if it makes any difference, but here's a copy of the AAC file anyway.  This was downloaded as a stand-alone audio file and then muxed into the proper M4A container automatically via CompleteYouTubeSaver + ffmpeg:
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/3daol82 … anford.m4a

Note that I don't plan on keeping this download available forever, I'll likely delete it in a few days or so.


EDIT 3: If you want, I could even provide a "pre-made" version of PaleMoon portable that is already set up to download the according 256kbps AAC audio save for the necessary menu choices to actually select the according download.

1,139

(45 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Well if it's drivers, then perhaps the brand of GPU makes a difference?

I personally am unsure whether I had the issue on Intel integrated graphics or with AMD integrated graphics, but I at least know that it was one of those two and was not Nvidia.


(I say I am unsure because I majorly upgraded my CPU 6 months ago and I don't really recall if the issue mainly occured before or after the upgrade.  I think it may rarely occur sometimes nowadays, but I know that some point in the past it occured much more frequently for me)

1,140

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Unfortunately I have no extra information than what I've already stated.  All I can say is to perhaps download the extension I linked to and try it yourself (it may be wise to try it in the PortableApps version of Firefox or the official portable version of Pale Moon).

And of course, since extensions aren't encrypted, you can view the XPI archive's contents by just renaming its file extension to .ZIP.  Considering you actually know how to code (unlike me), you might be able to make more sense of the contents of said extension (for this purpose it may be wise to at least refer to the Opus mod I made since I made a folder with copies of the modified files specifically for pointing out which files were the ones that I did modify, meaning they are the files that contain the info regarding formats and fmt values).

1,141

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Technically the one I linked totally could support Opus by simply changing the fmt values - I did this on my own to support 60fps before it got added officially, and am tempted to replace the depreciated 192kbps Vorbis with Opus.

Speaking of which, I was digging around the extension's XPI archive and I can confirm that the fmt values I posted above for AAC are definitely correct since it's what the extension itself uses.  So if you're not getting any fmt141 listed, you may want to see if you can manually input and retrieve it...


EDIT: Yup, just made an "Opus mod" of it.  It still says OGG vorbis and saves stand-alone audio to an OGG container, but Opus actually natively uses the ogg container anyway (though with the file extension .opus) so everything works just fine.

Download link if you care:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/tur9j … us-mod.xpi

1,142

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

With the downloader I use (CompleteYouTubeSaver), indeed it would seem that 192kbps Vorbis has been depreciated in favor of 160kbps Opus (I'm not surprised), but 256kbps AAC is still available...  maybe they changed the fmt value from what it used to be?

1,143

(45 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Chainik wrote:

Sounds like a miracle

The fact that I came up with this process on my own while trying to tackle the very same issue sounds to me like it's a bug, not a miracle.

My guess is that, much like the crazy flickering that can be (at least temporarily) fixed by changing the thread count, it is something related to the GPU acceleration since I discovered that both of these issues do not occur when GPU acceleration is disabled...


Or it could be all down to that mess known as graphics drivers.  roll

1,144

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

I don't know, I'm not looking with your downloader since even the one I personally use doesn't support Opus. tongue


I'm not sure how many of the are still accurate but here's a reference point for what was at one point at least accurate:

fmt139 = AAC 48kbps
fmt140 = AAC 128kbps
fmt141 = AAC 256kbps

fmt171 = Vorbis 128kbps
fmt172 = Vorbis 192kbps

fmt249 = Opus (unknown bitrate)
fmt250 = Opus (unknown bitrate)
fmt251 = Opus 160kbps

1,145

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

I think you are downloading the wrong AAC audio then - the DASH audio stream for 480p is 128kbps while the DASH audio stream for 720p is 256kbps.

Also, it's very possible that they may have downgraded the 720p vorbis at some point in time due to it being depreciated in favor of Opus audio (fmt251).

1,146

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Ok, but you still never answered my question...  maybe I should re-word it.

Are you "throwing away" the non-DASH 720p format?

1,147

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

I was only talking about video, not audio.  A 128kbps h.264 video would look like crap (see: 144p).

1,148

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

BTW, when you say 35% smaller than h.264, which format are comparing to for, say, 720p?  There's DASH h.264 and non-DASH h.264...

1,149

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

My point was that, I wonder if there are YouTube videos that do not have non-DASH 360p h.264.

Regarding audio, the bitrate for 360p DASH should be 128kbps AAC while non-DASH 360p should be 96kbps AAC...

But honestly, if you're really concerned about audio quality, use the audio from the VP9 DASH videos if you can - YouTube's AAC encoder isn't as good as their Vorbis encoder (probably because they use open-source encoders, and AAC open-source encoders are inferior to open-source vorbis encoders).

(though actually some videos even have Opus audio, which is even better than both AAC and Vorbis, but I unfortunately haven't really tested it)

1,150

(185 replies, posted in Using SVP)

Definitely for WebM, but I'm not so sure about h.264.  In particular, it's theoretically possible to have a video without the 360p DASH format but still have the 360p non-DASH format.  I cannot say however that such a thing actually does exist though.