51 (edited by Mystery 21-01-2015 18:56:25)

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

MaXimus, regular builds don't support MT which tend to be less stable. Multi-Threading is generally only supported in special builds. SVP requires Multi-Threading to do its job in real-time.

SEt is saying the MT will be there, so there you'll have your better alternative! (finally)

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

FYI SEt posted his new MT version http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=148782

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

Main issue with original AVS - it eats too much memory.
I can easily push memory usage beyond 2 GB on 1080p video and it's just one click away from 32-bit process crashing.
Another issue - memory consumption is almost not adjustable in original AVS MT. In both "2.5.8 SVP's edition" and AVS+ memory consumption linearly depends on number of thread in use, BUT original AVS always eats its 2+ GB.

For example:

15 threads (default value for 8-thread CPUs): AVS 2.6 - 2300 MB, AVS 2.5 "SVP" - 1845 MB, AVS+ - 2000 MB.
10 threads: AVS 2.6 - 2000 MB, AVS 2.5 "SVP" - 1310 MB, AVS+ - 1580 MB.

AVS 2.6 will always crash a player unless it's not "4GB patched".
Videos larger than FullHD will not work with AVS 2.6.

54 (edited by James D 26-01-2015 21:17:47)

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

Chainik wrote:

Main issue with original AVS - it eats too much memory.

So is it memory leak or a "feature"?

Could someone do a comparison again but with newest Avisynth MT? Does it still fast at the beginning but then slows down because of too much memory when encoding?

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

James D
So is it memory leak or a "feature"?

a feature big_smile it just wasting memory for excessive caching

https://theworldtowrites.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/no-one-cares.jpg

56 (edited by James D 27-01-2015 03:50:09)

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

1080p movie:
AS 2.5.8 = +1100MB overall RAM used.
AS 2.6.4 and 2.6.5 = 1700MB each.

Now curious part...
4K H.263 4mn 2s Bit rate 51.0 Mbps 3840x2160 pixels Frame rate Constant 29.970 fps
This video + AS 2.6.5 = +1.55GB RAM.

I need an h264 now to test
Even more curious:
Codec ID: avc1 Codec ID/Info: Advanced Video Coding Duration: 3mn 46s
Bit rate: 22.5 Mbps Maximum bit rate: 58.1 Mbps
Width: 4 096 pixels Height: 2 304 pixels Frame rate: Constant 24.000 fps

This video + AS 2.6.5 = +1.985 MB RAM.

Sorry but to me it looks like there are personal reasons for not to use it.

As a USER I can say that crash when searching feels like Big bug. While having to patch smth with 4GB Patch feels like Developers successfully fight with natural limitations and support product and customers. Just my 2 cents;)

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

Chainik
Another issue - memory consumption is almost not adjustable in original AVS MT. In both "2.5.8 SVP's edition" and AVS+ memory consumption linearly depends on number of thread in use, BUT original AVS always eats its 2+ GB.
<...>
it just wasting memory for excessive caching

Is it hard to make "2.6MT SVP's edition"?

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

With the 4GB patch, you could advertise SVP's ability to "finally make your 8GB RAM useful" as a feature!

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

nemoW
Is it hard to make "2.6MT SVP's edition"?

may be this's the only option right now

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

Just for the record, how many computation threads are needed for the maximum performance.

Graph shows how frames-per-second depend on number of MT threads.

AVS script is SVP-generated for frame doubling (x2) with GPU acceleration.
CPU is AMD FX-8350 (4 cores 8 threads, just like Core i7).

http://www.svp-team.com/forum/misc.php?item=3333&amp;download=0

And every thread need its memory and increases inner AVS cache.

Post's attachments

avs-mt.png, 7.24 kb, 481 x 289
avs-mt.png 7.24 kb, 503 downloads since 2015-01-30 

61 (edited by Mystery 31-01-2015 04:27:45)

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

I'd be curious as to how the previous 2.6 MT compares in performance.

But I guess the point is that performance doesn't change much, all that changes is the number of threads required, which doesn't change the number of threads that actually get created (I think 15 by default on GPU+8 CPU?)

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

Mystery
I'd be curious as to how the previous 2.6 MT compares in performance.

SEt's MT patch was last changed in early 2011...

number of threads required, which doesn't change the number of threads that actually get created

Right. This's why I'm starting to think we could switch to SEt's 2.6 MT.
It's totally OK on systems with 8 GB memory.
BUT it can create problems on 4 GB memory AND make SVP almost unusable on less than 4 GB memory.

63 (edited by James D 31-01-2015 18:33:03)

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

Mystery
performance doesn't change much, all that changes is the number of threads required, which doesn't change the number of threads that actually get created

Man, that is some logical point that I didn't think about. Are you a lawer?)
The question is... what performance difference on 15 threads?
I believe that different avisynths require optimized plugins for optimal performance.

Options in installer: SVP AS2.5 Ready or 2.6 Ready. Select checkbox.

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

James D
Options in installer: SVP AS2.5 Ready or 2.6 Ready

try to guess how many users will know the right answer big_smile

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

James D wrote:

Man, that is some logical point that I didn't think about. Are you a lawer?)

No, a computer programmer (in past life, now running my own business in a different field).

James D wrote:

The question is... what performance difference on 15 threads?

I would love to see that as well.

Chainik wrote:

James D
Options in installer: SVP AS2.5 Ready or 2.6 Ready

try to guess how many users will know the right answer big_smile

I was thinking about that as being ideal. Write it out simply: select 2.6 MT if you have at least 4GB of RAM (more stable but takes more memory). Otherwise, select 2.5 MT.

If they're still confused, program it to auto-detect the amount of RAM and select the right option by default.

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

Mystery
what performance difference on 15 threads? ... I would love to see that as well.

the same


BTW I was able to build AVS 2.6 + MT + our own patches, and it almost working BUT they've changed something in caching algorithm so it eats memory really fast and crashes.
And I really don't like to dig into this ... crap one more time big_smile
So I'd prefer to stick with "official" build if it's possible.

67 (edited by Mystery 31-01-2015 22:24:09)

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

I hate digging into crappy code. Most programmers code like crap and leave a bunch of small issues behind that compound on each other to make a "functional mess". This is certainly the case with AviSynth.

Rule #1 with this: if it's not broken don't touch it

68 (edited by Mystery 31-01-2015 22:36:29)

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

Chainik, if performance is the same, SVP patch wouldn't change performance but only memory usage? For computers with 4-8GB RAM, the 500-1000MB you might save won't change much. For computers with less than 4GB, they're better off with the 2.5 MT version.

What patching the 2.6 MT might do is to allow weaker computers to also run the 2.6 MT version.

Perhaps applying the 4GB patch would be good too. But... mmm... that patches the executables? AviSynth.dll is a DLL, it is the processes accessing it that would have to be patched... yeah that won't work.

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

"4gb patch" is a must in any case.
perhaps this should be written with big and bold red letters on every Wiki page

70 (edited by Mystery 01-02-2015 00:02:02)

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

but then can you patch AviSynth.dll, or you would have to patch MPC-HC, x264, MeGUI and every other application that uses AviSynth?

Oh. In this case it's only SvpMgr.exe that needs to be patched. MPC-HC isn't using AviSynth. SvpMgr is. Maybe?

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

ffdshow is using avisynth
video player is using ffdshow
wink

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

Chainik
ffdshow is using avisynth
video player is using ffdshow

Sorry, I still can not figure out which files need to be patched: avisynth.dll and mpc-hc.exe or something else?

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

.exe file only

and mpc-hc.exe is already patched by its developers

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

I had to patch player's exe in the first 2 days after using SVP and never heared about Avs 2.6 by that time.

P.S. Reading your words some people may be confused so that they will try to patch ffdshow.exe.
P.P.S. I would be fine with any Avs if I get no bug.

Re: SVP with AviSynth 2.6 or AviSynth+ ?

Since you embed MPC-HC into SVP's package, you can have it patched.