Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik wrote:

I'm not talking about SVPtube but about artifacts on frame edges.

About the SVPtube. I got this off the main website:




Notes
These links're time limited and valid for your IP address only
It's completely up to video player to start playback / hang / crash / etc while opening the link
MPC-HC 1.7.xxxx is highly recommended, previous versions can hang sometimes especially with "new" YouTube "video-only" streams (see below)
Don't forget to set video player to open videos in the same window:
MPC-HC: "View" - "Options" - "Player" - "Use the same player for each video file"
Daum PotPlayer: "Preferences" - "General" - "Multiple instances" - "Disable: Play files in existing instance"

So apparently, it could be my IP address on why MPC-HC crashes, I guess. Same thing happens in potplayer btw, but I don't use potplayer. MPC-HC is better XP



Okay I'll send you the videos that have artifacts/flickers around the video/screen border.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktdFm7xNJow


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq-Ru6kQhE4


There's more videos that have it but I just sent you those as an example.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

WolfyAmbassador
Okay I'll send you the videos that have artifacts/flickers around the video/screen border.

and the exact SVP settings are... ??? lol

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik wrote:

WolfyAmbassador
Okay I'll send you the videos that have artifacts/flickers around the video/screen border.

and the exact SVP settings are... ??? lol





uniform

simple lite

to refresh rate

12px

grid step disabled

radius small and fast

vectors two pixels

wide search average

masking disabled

scene changes repeat frame

frame size to screen size


autocrop


GPU acceleration


processing threads auto.


high process priority


is that enough info, or do you need a little more?

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

WolfyAmbassador
is that enough info, or do you need a little more?


two times on the prev. page:

Chainik
post here the exact SVP settings (Information - Additional information)

Chainik
give me the exact SVP settings (Information - Additional information)

  • MAG79
  • SVP developer
  • Offline

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

WolfyAmbassador
It is mean: SVP tray menu - Information - Additional information wink

56 Reply by WolfyAmbassador (edited by WolfyAmbassador 09-06-2014 14:39:54)

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Chainik wrote:

WolfyAmbassador
is that enough info, or do you need a little more?


two times on the prev. page:

Chainik
post here the exact SVP settings (Information - Additional information)

Chainik
give me the exact SVP settings (Information - Additional information)





Last processed file parameters:
Filename: //r7---sn-8xgp1vo-xfgd.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?dur=277.400&itag=135&ip=108.21.230.177&key=yt5&lmt=1376013716399532&mt=1402315971&ipbits=0&ms=au&source=youtube&mv=m&gir=yes&sver=3&id=o-AMG3-Xw2QpGtzXGTvuZikuurgAR2apGTm4z8RChgkVxD&expire=1402341656&fexp=907725%2C910207%2C913434%2C916614%2C923341%2C930008%2C932617%2C938631&clen=7272013&sparams=clen%2Cdur%2Cgir%2Cid%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Clmt%2Csource%2Cupn%2Cexpire&signature=BB2CBEFA42457A2B4C777D16882037AA819B1069.B72CD58B4E85CCB3A6BD151EEBA0E72A2B4AB731&mws=yes&upn=bAgw3VtmJ1A
Frame size and frame rate: 640x480 pixels, 29.351 fps
Internal Avisynth-framerate: 30 fps
After auto crop: 480x480 pixels

Detected screen parameters
Screen size and refresh rate: 1366x768 pixels, 59.996 Hz

Video smoothing info
Smooth factor: 2:1
Resulting video frame rate: 58.702 fps
Repeat 1.3 frames every sec

Selected profile: 720x576@25

Profile settings of video processing
[ExMethod=MSmoothFps_0]        Frames interpolation mode: Uniform (max smoothness)
[ExAlgo=13]            SVP shader: 13. Standard (default)
[ExMulti=MON]            Target frame rate: To screen refresh rate (default)
[ExBlockSize=16x16:2]        Motion vectors grid: 12 px. Average 2 (default)
[ExRecalc=0:0]            Decrease grid step: Disabled (default)
[TypeDist=Hex:-6:SAD]        Search radius: Small and fast
[ExPel=0]            Motion vectors precision: Two pixels
[Badsad=1000:-24]        Wide search: Average (default)
[ExSadml=0]            Artifacts masking: Disabled (default)
[ExBlend=false]            Processing of scene changes: Repeat frame (default)
[ExDwnResize=0]            Decrease frame size: Disabled (default)

Settings by menu
[svp_libflowgpu=1]        GPU-acceleration (OpenCL): true
[ExThreads=0]            Processing threads: Auto
[StereoMode=0]            Stereo mode (3D): Plain 2D
[AutoCrop=1]            Auto crop black bars: true [80:0:80:0]
[HandCrop=None]            Frame crop: Disabled
[Borderlight=None]        Outer lighting: Disabled
[VDelay=0]            Video delay: 0 ms
[ExDemo=0]            Demonstration mode: false
[ExTearingTest=0]        Tearing test: false
[StopSmoothDelayOnRewind=1]    Turn off on seek: Turn off by 1 sec



The info I gave you should be the same as the other active profiles, except the resolution obviously.














I changed shaders back to "standard" on all working profiles, it seems to save cpu load slightly. I can't use 1080p profile, because 1080p doesn't work with SVP well.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

I had to reduce the shader back to simple lite, because I was getting audio/video sync issues, video slowness, and "performance is too low index" messages. I also increase the vector grid to 24px, I might change that back to a lower number, because I like the intense interpolation effect.

58 Reply by WolfyAmbassador (edited by WolfyAmbassador 11-06-2014 00:39:39)

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

It seems that using the sync renderer instead of EVR fixes the video/audio sync issue, but there is this god awful lag that prevents SVP from starting up fast enough to see the beginning of the video.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

WolfyAmbassador

I just wanted to clarify some things. Films and such are 24fps. Sometimes 25. TV is 30. Now, if you double the frame rate of TV, you get 60. So with a 60hz max refresh rate, you can frame double the tv without issues, since you just duplicate frames (you can do interpolation if you wish). Now, look at film. 24*2 = 48. So you would double it, but you fall short of the max. And what do you do with the extra 200ms? Well, you need 12 more frames. You can take some frames and double them again, but then you introduce a kind of jerkyness to it, all in an attempt to reach 60fps.

So, what about if you want to have 120fps. Let's look at that. To bump up 24fps to 120, you multiply by 5. So, you can make four copies of each frame, and you have 120. What about 30? You just need 3 copies. (30x4). So it works out better with more smoothness just due to the math involved.

So, how can you get 24fps to 60fps looking smooth? I suppose one way is to crank it up to 120fps and then halve the fps. It's simple, isn't it? But it requires more processing power... however, since this is running on the computer this is not an issue.

I hope I've explained it well enough for you why TVs have smoothing at 120hz and less so at 60. Some of them 60hz tvs do have interpolation, just look at this tv...

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN39FH5000FXZA

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

spiderx wrote:

WolfyAmbassador

I just wanted to clarify some things. Films and such are 24fps. Sometimes 25. TV is 30. Now, if you double the frame rate of TV, you get 60. So with a 60hz max refresh rate, you can frame double the tv without issues, since you just duplicate frames (you can do interpolation if you wish). Now, look at film. 24*2 = 48. So you would double it, but you fall short of the max. And what do you do with the extra 200ms? Well, you need 12 more frames. You can take some frames and double them again, but then you introduce a kind of jerkyness to it, all in an attempt to reach 60fps.

So, what about if you want to have 120fps. Let's look at that. To bump up 24fps to 120, you multiply by 5. So, you can make four copies of each frame, and you have 120. What about 30? You just need 3 copies. (30x4). So it works out better with more smoothness just due to the math involved.

So, how can you get 24fps to 60fps looking smooth? I suppose one way is to crank it up to 120fps and then halve the fps. It's simple, isn't it? But it requires more processing power... however, since this is running on the computer this is not an issue.

I hope I've explained it well enough for you why TVs have smoothing at 120hz and less so at 60. Some of them 60hz tvs do have interpolation, just look at this tv...

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN39FH5000FXZA

I have a TV with CMR 120, and it doesn't really make the picture smoother, nor is there a setting for interpolation. I will say this, things can move fast on the screen without blurring too much or losing contrast/brightness. There's a trick to the TV, not 100% sure if it's a form of motion interpolation or anti-blur technology. Could be like the 2m setting in SVP.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Did SVPmark bench btw...



Test summary
-----------------------
  Date: 2014-06-12T04:10:50
  CPU:  AMD A6-3420M APU with Radeon HD Graphics @1497 MHz [4 threads]
  GPU:  AMD/ATI Radeon HD 6520G [ver.1.4.1607]
  Mode: FHD + GPU [9 threads]

Overall scores
-----------------------
  Synthetic CPU:                  MC758
  Synthetic GPU:                  MG1382
  Real-life:                      FG740

Details: synthetic
-----------------------
  CPU: compose (single-threaded): 216
  CPU: compose (multi-threaded):  804
  CPU: search (single-threaded):  188
  CPU: search (multi-threaded):   718
  GPU: system -> GPU transfer:    120
  GPU: GPU -> system transfer:    368
  GPU: calculations:              119
  GPU: total score:               691

Details: real-life /FHD
-----------------------
  decode video:                   5.31x (127.4 fps)
  48 fps - vectors search:        0.56x (27.0 fps)
  60 fps - frame composition:     0.74x (44.6 fps)
  48 fps - [SVP] fastest:         1.51x (72.3 fps)
  48 fps - [SVP] simple 1:        1.29x (62.0 fps)
  60 fps - [SVP] good:            0.66x (39.4 fps)
  60 fps - [SVP] high:            0.53x (31.5 fps)
  60 fps - [SVP] highest:         0.28x (16.6 fps)
  72 fps - [SVP] simple 2:        0.89x (63.9 fps)

62 Reply by WolfyAmbassador (edited by WolfyAmbassador 12-06-2014 19:24:56)

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

When TV companies have motion interpolation implemented inside HDTV's what interpolation mode is usually used as far as the highest modes. Would it be something similar to uniform, 1m, or 1.5m?

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

Got an error:


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-aI5_ … sp=sharing


Don't know if it's because I had multiple MPC-HC processes running at once.

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

WolfyAmbassador wrote:
spiderx wrote:

WolfyAmbassador

I just wanted to clarify some things. Films and such are 24fps. Sometimes 25. TV is 30. Now, if you double the frame rate of TV, you get 60. So with a 60hz max refresh rate, you can frame double the tv without issues, since you just duplicate frames (you can do interpolation if you wish). Now, look at film. 24*2 = 48. So you would double it, but you fall short of the max. And what do you do with the extra 200ms? Well, you need 12 more frames. You can take some frames and double them again, but then you introduce a kind of jerkyness to it, all in an attempt to reach 60fps.

So, what about if you want to have 120fps. Let's look at that. To bump up 24fps to 120, you multiply by 5. So, you can make four copies of each frame, and you have 120. What about 30? You just need 3 copies. (30x4). So it works out better with more smoothness just due to the math involved.

So, how can you get 24fps to 60fps looking smooth? I suppose one way is to crank it up to 120fps and then halve the fps. It's simple, isn't it? But it requires more processing power... however, since this is running on the computer this is not an issue.

I hope I've explained it well enough for you why TVs have smoothing at 120hz and less so at 60. Some of them 60hz tvs do have interpolation, just look at this tv...

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN39FH5000FXZA

I have a TV with CMR 120, and it doesn't really make the picture smoother, nor is there a setting for interpolation. I will say this, things can move fast on the screen without blurring too much or losing contrast/brightness. There's a trick to the TV, not 100% sure if it's a form of motion interpolation or anti-blur technology. Could be like the 2m setting in SVP.

So basically TV manufacturers have to increase processing power to make 60hz tvs display 60fps. The reason our PCs don't have as much of an issue is because our CPUs/GPUs are powerful enough, where's TVs have simple processors just for the images displayed on the screen. Maybe that explains why setting SVP to 24->60 instead of "to screen refresh rate" works better, because it focuses on the conversion and how it's able to display 60fps than the refresh rate itself which isn't equal to that number.

65 Reply by SABERWOLF (edited by SABERWOLF 27-06-2014 20:06:54)

  • Thanks: 1

Re: SVP vs 120/240hz TVs with motion interpolation?

I am srry if I am asking a stupid question   big_smile

I've had SVP installed for about a year, but have lately seen it's full potential, an would like to get involved in th project so I could use it to the best of it's capabilities.  neutral

Quick question regarding interpoling, being you guys are on the topic.

I've seen this YouTube vid called Frame Doubling Interpolation (SmoothVideo Project)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=882c25af2hM

I've alos read a few articles in the forum an on the main page in regards to Interpolation.

here is my question, where is this feature loacted in SVP which enables or disables, like as shown in the vid above, or does this feature apply only to  older versions of SVP, being I am using a more current version of 3.1.6, I believe?

Or is this feature intergrated into madVR which I did manage to see a smooth motion feature which you can enable or disable?

Thanx for you patience in my unknowingness  big_smile

I just would like to achiieve the best performace out of MPC-HC an SVP, as humanely possible.

Is there a thread (guide) here which shows the both (SVP,MPC-HC) setup?

I would not mind taking a look through it! smile