> The SVP index wasn't high enough for profile settings 1 and 3?

for playing in mpv - yes

So the SVP index is high enough in MPC-HC for profile settings 1 and 3? That would make sense because the 10-bit is just reduced to 8-bit in MPC-HC, right?

for playing in mpv - yes

> would 4k h.265 8-bit video use up the same amount of CPU to interpolate as 4k h.265 10-bit video?

nope, considering you're using hardware decoder, h.265 8-bit need the same CPU power as h.264 8-bit

HT gives wrong CPU load numbers. "50% CPU load with HT in Task Manager" can mean anything from real 50% to actual 100%.

My CPU shows 45% load with HT and 90% w/o HT with the same settings. But it doesn't mean "HT gives x2 performance boost".

Oh thank you. Interesting, I did not know this. So does this mean on this test:

The SVP index wasn't high enough for profile settings 1 and 3?

Also would 4k h.265 8-bit video use up the same amount of CPU to interpolate as 4k h.265 10-bit video?

My CPU shows 45% load with HT and 90% w/o HT with the same settings. But it doesn't mean "HT gives x2 performance boost".

Chainik wrote:

Ryzen 7 8-cores, MPC-HC 64-bit - SVP @4K CPU load is less than 30%

Chainik wrote:

at highest "auto" settings (and Ryzen 7 at 3.4 GHz loaded up to 50% in this mode)

Actualy, these are not entirely true
CPU load numbers are half-fake because of hyper-threading turned on.

Here's one more attempt, with Ryzen 8-cores at 3.4 GHz and HT off:

"lvl" = SVP "auto" profile level, 1 is highest settings.

lvl / MPC-HC / mpv

4K H.264 (8-bit)
1 / 90% / 100%, SVP index < 0.9
3 / 70% / 85%
5 / 60% / 70%

4K H.265/HDR (10-bit) -> 8-bit
5 / 60% / 85%

4K H.265/HDR (10-bit) -> 10-bit
Is not supported in MPC-HC, and is not playable in mpv - 60% CPU load while SVP index stays below 0.8.

1. mpv needs more CPU power (~by 20%) for 4K playback than MPC-HC
2. 10-bit 4K is a no-go in current mpv version - something is limiting performance very badly

===

For 1080p 10-bit HDR difference is not so huge.
MPC-HC (8-bit) - 25% CPU load
mpv (8-bit) - 27%
mpv (10-bit) - 34%

BTW, 10-bit mode in SVP is kind of broken - intermediate frames are rounded to 8-bit and colors are incorrect. Will be fixed ASAP.

Thank you for doing this. I have a few questions.

Why would you turn hyperthreading off if it improves the performance? Could we get a test with hyperthreading on?

Ryzen 7 8-cores, MPC-HC 64-bit - SVP @4K CPU load is less than 30%

Actualy, these are not entirely true
CPU load numbers are half-fake because of hyper-threading turned on.

Here's one more attempt, with Ryzen 8-cores at 3.4 GHz and HT off:

"lvl" = SVP "auto" profile level, 1 is highest settings.

lvl / MPC-HC / mpv

4K H.264 (8-bit)
1 / 90% / 100%, SVP index < 0.9
3 / 70% / 85%
5 / 60% / 70%

4K H.265/HDR (10-bit) -> 8-bit
5 / 60% / 85%

4K H.265/HDR (10-bit) -> 10-bit
Is not supported in MPC-HC, and is not playable in mpv - 60% CPU load while SVP index stays below 0.8.

1. mpv needs more CPU power (~by 20%) for 4K playback than MPC-HC
2. 10-bit 4K is a no-go in current mpv version - something is limiting performance very badly

===

For 1080p 10-bit HDR difference is not so huge.
MPC-HC (8-bit) - 25% CPU load
mpv (8-bit) - 27%
mpv (10-bit) - 34%

BTW, 10-bit mode in SVP is kind of broken - intermediate frames are rounded to 8-bit and colors are incorrect. Will be fixed ASAP.

Moondust76 wrote:

Chainik wrote:

> SVP @4K CPU load is less than 30%

let's say "50%" (at the highest "auto" settings and Ryzen 8-cores at 3.4 GHz), 8-bit video

Ok, that sounds great but......what about 10bit video and HDR? Both will inevitably become part of mainstream videos. How much more firepower do I need to be able to handle 10bit and/or HDR too when it becomes mainstream/available?

I'm going to try to answer both your posts.

The thing is, to my knowledge per core is a little harder to measure given differences in architectures, chipsets, etc. An i7-8700k and an intel x299 i7 or i9 do not have the same per core performance (As far as I am aware the 8700k is the strongest single thread performer currently available). If all your going to be using this computer for is video playback, then I imagine the ryzen 7 1700, 1700x, or 1800x is the right choice based on price. As far as I am aware, the more expensive 8700k would perform in between them (though they do all perform pretty close together as far as I know, and this is before any overclocking). This said, SVP almost always does better with more high performance cores, so a 10+ core x299 cpu or a threadripper (though i think a threadripper would perform worse than a 10+ x299) would probably beat all of the CPUs previously mentioned. But they are also a lot more costly and likely not required. Also I am only talking about SVP interpolation, not other video playback processes, though those are rarely CPU bound.

I use mpv with SVP4 / latest Vapoursynth to achieve double framerate (my monitor supports 48, 50 and 60Hz modes) while upscaling (2160p monitor). I have been using an RX480 and an R7 1700 @ 3.9 Ghz.

With opengl as a renderer, 4K content only works at lowest interpolation settings reliably. With Vulkan as a renderer, higher settings are possible, but Vulkan does not work well with motion interpolation in my experience (crashes a lot).

10bit video hardware decoding is supported on all modern CPUs and GPUs, so again I don't think you need to go too much outside the norm for this. To my knowledge, HDR depends. If you are just passing through HDR to an HDR display then HDR is just metadata in the file to my knowledge and the display will handle the HDR (meaning no specific hardware required). You will need a renderer that supports HDR passthrough though.

Now, if you're talking about 10-bit and HDR passthrough with SVP interpolation this isn't currently possible yet. I've been asking similar questions but based on the responses I've received in this thread and my own research I'm fairly certain 10-bit just isn't going to come to SVP on directshow players. If you're using mpv and/or vlc and therefore vapoursynth with SVP, 10-bit passthrough is already supported. HDR passthrough isn't yet but if it ever does happen it will likely happen on mpv first. I doubt HDR passthrough will add any extra strain to the interpolation (to my knowledge) as it is just extra metadata in the file and HDR display is handled by the renderer and/or the display, not SVP. I imagine 10bit increases the load on SVP at least a bit (churning out 10 bit instead of 8 bit frames) but by how much I am uncertain. I doubt it is very significant though, however that question may be worth asking either the developers or someone else who has used SVP with 10 bit.

Chainik wrote:

> SVP @4K CPU load is less than 30%

let's say "50%" (at the highest "auto" settings and Ryzen 8-cores at 3.4 GHz), 8-bit video

Ok, that sounds great but......what about 10bit video and HDR? Both will inevitably become part of mainstream videos. How much more firepower do I need to be able to handle 10bit and/or HDR too when it becomes mainstream/available?

I'm going to try to answer both your posts.

The thing is, to my knowledge per core is a little harder to measure given differences in architectures, chipsets, etc. An i7-8700k and an intel x299 i7 or i9 do not have the same per core performance (As far as I am aware the 8700k is the strongest single thread performer currently available). If all your going to be using this computer for is video playback, then I imagine the ryzen 7 1700, 1700x, or 1800x is the right choice based on price. As far as I am aware, the more expensive 8700k would perform in between them (though they do all perform pretty close together as far as I know, and this is before any overclocking). This said, SVP almost always does better with more high performance cores, so a 10+ core x299 cpu or a threadripper (though i think a threadripper would perform worse than a 10+ x299) would probably beat all of the CPUs previously mentioned. But they are also a lot more costly and likely not required. Also I am only talking about SVP interpolation, not other video playback processes, though those are rarely CPU bound.

10bit video hardware decoding is supported on all modern CPUs and GPUs, so again I don't think you need to go too much outside the norm for this. To my knowledge, HDR depends. If you are just passing through HDR to an HDR display then HDR is just metadata in the file to my knowledge and the display will handle the HDR (meaning no specific hardware required). You will need a renderer that supports HDR passthrough though.

Now, if you're talking about 10-bit and HDR passthrough with SVP interpolation this isn't currently possible yet. I've been asking similar questions but based on the responses I've received in this thread and my own research I'm fairly certain 10-bit just isn't going to come to SVP on directshow players. If you're using mpv and/or vlc and therefore vapoursynth with SVP, 10-bit passthrough is already supported. HDR passthrough isn't yet but if it ever does happen it will likely happen on mpv first. I doubt HDR passthrough will add any extra strain to the interpolation (to my knowledge) as it is just extra metadata in the file and HDR display is handled by the renderer and/or the display, not SVP. I imagine 10bit increases the load on SVP at least a bit (churning out 10 bit instead of 8 bit frames) but by how much I am uncertain. I doubt it is very significant though, however that question may be worth asking either the developers or someone else who has used SVP with 10 bit.

> SVP @4K CPU load is less than 30%

let's say "50%" (at the highest "auto" settings and Ryzen 8-cores at 3.4 GHz), 8-bit video

Ok, that sounds great but......what about 10bit video and HDR? Both will inevitably become part of mainstream videos. How much more firepower do I need to be able to handle 10bit and/or HDR too when it becomes mainstream/available?

let's say "50%" (at the highest "auto" settings and Ryzen 8-cores at 3.4 GHz), 8-bit video

Ryzen 7 8-cores, MPC-HC 64-bit - SVP @4K CPU load is less than 30%

Thnx, much better than I expected. So more than 8 cores is not going to be needed. Then I don't have to look at the socket 2066 platform or other more exotic and expensive platforms.

What can be said about SVP efficiency between Intel and AMD CPU's? Which one is doing SVP better per core?

nope

Yes. To get 10bit output you need mpv-based player or VLC. Vapoursynth interface used.
https://www.svp-team.com/wiki/Manual:SVP